Page 1 of 54 1231151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 532

Thread: E-V13 in Bulgarian Iron Age

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    319
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    mtDNA (M)
    T2

    Bulgaria

    E-V13 in Bulgarian Iron Age

    Recently came to my attention a few videos, which claim a new big project about testing old bones from different periods in Bulgaria. This will be between Dr.Reich's Harvard Lab and the Bulgarian Archaeological Institute.
    It seems the Harvard lab has some unpublished results from the study The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe. They appear for a short time on the screen of this video (around 6:00 min) but are covered by the head and are a mirror image. I managed to see that all assigned haplogroups from the Bulgarian Iron age are some kind of E:
    https://sedemosmi.tv/production/%d1%...2-2020-%d0%b3/

    There is one E1b1b1a1b1a - V13, 2 E1b1b1a1b1 - L618 and one given only as E. They are from Kapitan Andreevo-Svilengrad area, this is South East Bulgaria, close to the Turkish/Greek border. From this area is also the previous low coverage Thracian samples, worked out as M78. This is the hinterland of the Odrysian Thracian kingdom and there is a reason to believe that the Thracians from the Classical period are also predominantly V13.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odrysian_kingdom

    The guy on the video also mentioned that one Medieval sample from 9th c. Central Bulgaria has been proven Q1a2a. According to him, this must be some Old Bulgar, however not completely sure in not an Avar. He is paddling the Iran-Caucasus origin of the Old Bulgars, something most Bulgarians don't agree with. At any case more bones will be tested with this new project and the truth will be revealed at last.

  2. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to eastara For This Useful Post:

     AliB12 (11-04-2020),  Aspar (08-21-2020),  digital_noise (Yesterday),  evon (08-22-2020),  Farroukh (08-23-2020),  Hawk (08-21-2020),  Kaspias (08-23-2020),  Kelmendasi (08-28-2020),  Onur Dincer (08-23-2020),  The Saite (08-21-2020)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    762
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V13

    Albania
    Most of EBA are R1b, E-V13 appears in EIA, hmmm.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Hawk For This Useful Post:

     The Saite (08-21-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    319
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    mtDNA (M)
    T2

    Bulgaria
    He also mentioned about some new results from the Early Bronze age. The remains from Ezero culture, South East Bulgaria around 3000BC match those of the early layers of Troy. For now Dr.Reich was not sure if they came from the Balkans to Western Anatolia, or vice versa. There was also some matching of the Mycenaean with samples from Bulgaria.
    Previously published results from Bulgarian Bronze age are predominantly I2a2 and R1a-Z93.
    From the screen there are now R1b1a1b1a1, so probably L51. Previously among Yamnaya and other steppe protoIndoEuropeans was found Z2105 only.
    Last edited by eastara; 08-21-2020 at 08:31 AM.

  6. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to eastara For This Useful Post:

     ADW_1981 (08-23-2020),  DgidguBidgu (08-23-2020),  etrusco (08-21-2020),  evon (08-22-2020),  Farroukh (08-23-2020),  Onur Dincer (08-23-2020),  PQRS (08-21-2020)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    762
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V13

    Albania
    From previous study, the Thracian from Svilengrad was revealed to be E-Z1919 only, maybe he was E-L168, no deeper clade than that. Autosomally he was mostly Sardinian-like.

    It looks to me that E-V13 was a Central Balkan thing, Thracians, Paeonians, Dardanians, Macedonians, Epirotans, Illyrians from Albania will exhibit ~30-40% of it most likely.
    Last edited by Hawk; 08-21-2020 at 09:01 AM.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Hawk For This Useful Post:

     The Saite (08-21-2020)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    878
    Sex
    Location
    lombardy
    Nationality
    italian

    Italy Portugal Order of Christ Russia Imperial Canada Quebec Spanish Empire (1506-1701) Vatican
    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    He also mentioned about some new results from the Early Bronze age. The remains from Ezero culture, South East Bulgaria around 3000BC match those of the early layers of Troy. For now Dr.Reich was not sure if they came from the Balkans to Western Anatolia, or vice versa. There was also some matching of the Mycenaean with samples from Bulgaria.
    Previously published results from Bulgarian Bronze age are predominantly I2a2 and R1a-Z93.
    From the screen there are now R1b1a1b1a1, so probably L51. Previously among Yamnaya and other steppe protoIndoEuropeans was found Z2105 only.
    So they found an R1b L51 sample from Yamnaya Bulgaria?

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    319
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    mtDNA (M)
    T2

    Bulgaria
    Quote Originally Posted by etrusco View Post
    So they found an R1b L51 sample from Yamnaya Bulgaria?
    Unfortunately I can't see where the R1b samples are from. I know that pure Yamnaya was found occasionally only from kurgan type burials in Northern Bulgaria. Now I see EBA samples from Kran, Kazanlak, which is again South East Bulgaria. There is even a Thracian tomb from Kran as part of the Valley of the Kings. If the R1b-L51 samples are from Southern Bulgaria, they are from the "flat graves" connected to the Aegean culture. Is this the haplogroup of the Tojans as Svetoslav Stamov from the video was hinting, he does not reply when asked on the Bulgarian forums.

  11. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    762
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V13

    Albania
    This is something i can find from Kapitan Andreevo.

    This paper brings together old and new archaeobotanical evidence from 20 archaeological sites from Iron Age contexts spanning from the end of the 2nd millennium BC up to the end of the 4th century BC in northern Greece and southern Bulgaria. The sites are Karabournaki, Thessaloniki Toumba and Polichni in central Macedonia in northern Greece and Bresto, Malenovo, Dolno Cherkovishte, Kapitan Andreevo, Svilengrad and Dana Bunar in the region of south Bulgaria. A variety of cereals and pulses, already cultivated since Neolithic and Bronze Age times, are identified as potential culinary ingredients in both regions, yet the list of crops from northern Greece includes a wider diversity than that from the Bulgarian sites, especially regarding the fruit remains. Continuities and discontinuities of plant ingredients in space and time are discussed in relation to potential taphonomic biases. This new evidence from the region indicates that during the Iron Age this part of southeastern Europe shared common traditions in terms of the plant species consumed, with some differences already visible during the Late Bronze Age.


    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_and_Bulgaria
    So, potentially we should expect Northern Greece to show E-V13 as well.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hawk For This Useful Post:

     Farroukh (08-23-2020),  The Saite (08-21-2020)

  13. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    400
    Sex

    Greece
    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    Recently came to my attention a few videos, which claim a new big project about testing old bones from different periods in Bulgaria. This will be between Dr.Reich's Harvard Lab and the Bulgarian Archaeological Institute.
    It seems the Harvard lab has some unpublished results from the study The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe. They appear for a short time on the screen of this video (around 6:00 min) but are covered by the head and are a mirror image. I managed to see that all assigned haplogroups from the Bulgarian Iron age are some kind of E:
    https://sedemosmi.tv/production/%d1%...2-2020-%d0%b3/

    There is one E1b1b1a1b1a - V13, 2 E1b1b1a1b1 - L618 and one given only as E. They are from Kapitan Andreevo-Svilengrad area, this is South East Bulgaria, close to the Turkish/Greek border. From this area is also the previous low coverage Thracian samples, worked out as M78. This is the hinterland of the Odrysian Thracian kingdom and there is a reason to believe that the Thracians from the Classical period are also predominantly V13.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odrysian_kingdom

    The guy on the video also mentioned that one Medieval sample from 9th c. Central Bulgaria has been proven Q1a2a. According to him, this must be some Old Bulgar, however not completely sure in not an Avar. He is paddling the Iran-Caucasus origin of the Old Bulgars, something most Bulgarians don't agree with. At any case more bones will be tested with this new project and the truth will be revealed at last.
    'Old Great Bulgaria' (6th century AD?) in the sources was placed almost exactly where the 'Royal Scythians' / 'Skoloti' were placed a 1000 years earlier.
    I know that it is partially off topic but is important to see if there was genetic continuity there or replacement, or partial replacement and when. (In esscence if Bulgars had Royal Scythian lineages and also if these exist in Bulgaria and elsewhere in Europe)
    Certainly, some names of the Bulgars seem Indo-European, like Asparukh. Imo, even Kubrat, if we assume a ku- prefix of some short.
    Batbayan sounds more exotic but 'Batbayan' of modern scholarship is Βαιανος in most Greek sources. That points to a medieval Greek pronunciation Vajanos, with Bezmer, theoretically possible to have been the native name and that name also seems IE, the -mer part certainly is.

  14. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,489
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    This is something i can find from Kapitan Andreevo.



    So, potentially we should expect Northern Greece to show E-V13 as well.
    That's for sure, the question is just in which time period the percentage increases

  15. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    762
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Albanian
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V13

    Albania
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    That's for sure, the question is just in which time period the percentage increases
    EBA samples from Bulgaria on one side are dominated by R1b on the other side by R1a/I2a. So i would say the earliest it looks MBA, but mostly LBA/EIA.

Page 1 of 54 1231151 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Jewish or Bulgarian???
    By CyrylBojarski in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 07-12-2020, 05:33 PM
  2. Bulgarian Yamnaya is odd
    By JRD in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-04-2020, 09:47 PM
  3. Looking at Iron age Nordic and Iron age England
    By firemonkey in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-06-2020, 09:55 PM
  4. Bulgarian L21
    By Kopfjäger in forum R1b-L21
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 10-10-2017, 09:33 AM
  5. Bronze Age Bulgarian
    By Arame in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-30-2015, 09:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •