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Thread: E-V13 in Bulgarian Iron Age

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Is there any information on the J2b-M241, R1b-CTS1450 and E-V13 samples from Timacum Minus?
    I15551; 350-380 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase I; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; R1b1a1a2a2-Z2103; mt: T1a; Grave No. 91

    I15553; 350-380 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase I; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; E1b1b1a1b1a-V13; mt: T2b25; Grave No. 99

    I15544; 380-410 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase II; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; E1b1b1a1b1-L618; mt: HV9; Grave No. 15

    I15548; 380-410 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase II; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; J2b2a-M241; mt: W+194; Grave No. 28

    I15552; 380-410 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase II Serbia; Serbia_Roman; R1b1a1a2a2c1a1a-CTS1450; mt: H1c; Grave No. 97

    01. Timacum Minus - Slog Necropolis (350-450 AD).PNG

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  3. #222
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    One of the main questions Balkanians are asking is when I2a-Dinaric became prevailing here. It is obvious from those results that it is absent from the Roman era population. However did it arrive predominantly with Slavs or other ethnicities like Goths are involved?
    Prebislav, could you, please share more details about:
    Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):
    I2 x 2 (M423 x 2) Could it be Dinaric???
    Gomolava - 1 (labeled Serbia_Medieval):
    I2 x 1 (M423>L621>CTS4002)

    My brother is haplogroup I2-L596 Balkan cluster, common in a small area of Western Bulgaria and Eastern Serbia, so my theories it was brought from Anatolia in Roman times may be correct:
    Viminacium - 28 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
    I2 x 1 (L596)

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  5. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    I15551; 350-380 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase I; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; R1b1a1a2a2-Z2103; mt: T1a; Grave No. 91

    I15553; 350-380 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase I; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; E1b1b1a1b1a-V13; mt: T2b25; Grave No. 99

    I15544; 380-410 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase II; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; E1b1b1a1b1-L618; mt: HV9; Grave No. 15

    I15548; 380-410 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase II; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; J2b2a-M241; mt: W+194; Grave No. 28

    I15552; 380-410 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase II Serbia; Serbia_Roman; R1b1a1a2a2c1a1a-CTS1450; mt: H1c; Grave No. 97

    01. Timacum Minus - Slog Necropolis (350-450 AD).PNG
    How about the J2a samples?

  6. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    One of the main questions Balkanians are asking is when I2a-Dinaric became prevailing here. It is obvious from those results that it is absent from the Roman era population. However did it arrive predominantly with Slavs or other ethnicities like Goths are involved?
    Prebislav, could you, please share more details about:
    Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):
    I2 x 2 (M423 x 2) Could it be Dinaric???
    Gomolava - 1 (labeled Serbia_Medieval):
    I2 x 1 (M423>L621>CTS4002)

    My brother is haplogroup I2-L596 Balkan cluster, common in a small area of Western Bulgaria and Eastern Serbia, so my theories it was brought from Anatolia in Roman times may be correct:
    Viminacium - 28 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
    I2 x 1 (L596)
    I think it's likely both M423 samples from Timacum Minus and one sample from Gomolava are I2-Din, but we'll see if they'll have enough downstream SNPs since Y3120 and downstream subclades are poorly covered by 1240K.

    02. Timacum Minus - Kuline Necropolis (450-700 AD).PNG

  7. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    How about the J2a samples?
    Only one J2a from Slog necropolis:

    I15546; 380-410 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase II; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; J2a-M410; mt: L2a1+143+16189+16192; Grave No. 26


    mt-haplogroup is the most interesting thing about this sample:

    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L2a1-a2/

    EDIT:

    There are a Serb and a Croat further downstream:

    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L2a1k1/
    Last edited by Pribislav; 08-29-2020 at 01:04 AM.

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  9. #226
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    Thank you, Pribislav,
    However this anthropological study of Early Medieval Kulne necropolis, does not identify the ethnicity of the buried. It is mentioned only that they were warrior type people from the times of Great migrations and were involved in battles like light horsemen. Does this describe the Avars?

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Minus_-_Kuline

  10. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    Only one J2a from Slog necropolis:

    I15546; 380-410 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase II; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; J2a-M410; mt: L2a1+143+16189+16192; Grave No. 26


    mt-haplogroup is the most interesting thing about this sample:

    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L2a1-a2/

    EDIT:

    There are a Serb and a Croat further downstream:

    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L2a1k1/
    There are also 2 Bulgarians form Western Bulgaria, One has full mito with FTDNA and is an exact match to the Serb L2a1k1

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  12. #228
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    Based on current data i can speculate that in Balkans, these Y-DNA were present and/or came during

    Late Neolithic/Chalcolithic: G2a, I2a, J2a, E-L618

    Early Bronze Age/Middle Bronze Age:
    + R1b, +R1a, + J2b2

    Late Bronze Age: +E-V13
    Last edited by Hawk; 08-29-2020 at 10:24 AM.

  13. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    Thank you, Pribislav,
    However this anthropological study of Early Medieval Kulne necropolis, does not identify the ethnicity of the buried. It is mentioned only that they were warrior type people from the times of Great migrations and were involved in battles like light horsemen. Does this describe the Avars?

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Minus_-_Kuline
    Rather Sarmatians, which lived in the region for a long time, were allies of the Romans at times and being military service men quite often. So its possible that these individuals:

    I15551; 350-380 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase I; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; R1b1a1a2a2-Z2103; mt: T1a; Grave No. 91

    I15553; 350-380 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase I; Serbia; Serbia_Roman; E1b1b1a1b1a-V13; mt: T2b25; Grave No. 99
    were Sarmatian?

    Grave 97 even more likely so:
    I15552; 380-410 AD; Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis, phase II Serbia; Serbia_Roman; R1b1a1a2a2c1a1a-CTS1450; mt: H1c; Grave No. 97
    Notice the relationship of the R1b-detected in 91 and 97. I generally think that at that time, a large portion of the inhabitants was from Sarmatians, but these Sarmatians in turm might have assimilated local Danubian people too.
    Last edited by Riverman; 08-29-2020 at 11:51 AM.

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  15. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Rather Sarmatians, which lived in the region for a long time, were allies of the Romans at times and being military service men quite often. So its possible that this individual:



    was a Sarmatian?
    In regards to phase I of the Late Roman Slog necropolis, which sample I15553 belonged to, the paper linked by Pribislav suggests this:

    "Although the grave finds from phase I of the Slog necropolis do not essentially differ from those from graves of the subsequent phase (Pl. II–III), the component of the regular Roman army is more prominent, which is reflected in the finds of crossbow fibulae (Pl. II, 1, 6) and bronze belt sets (Pl. III, 1-2). Generally, it is possible that they are members of the same military unit, pseudocomitatenses Timacenses auxiliarii or officers of the II Aurelia Dardanorum equestrian cohort, which unquestionably made up the Timacum Minus garrison from the middle of the 2nd to the end of the 3rd or the beginning of the 4th century, that is to the Battle of Hadrianopolis in 378. However, what what should not be ruled out are the equestrian units of Numeri Dalmatorum, testified to by stamps on bricks from the 4th phase of the fortification reconstruction, during the period of the reign of Valentinian I and Valens (364-375). That they were really warriors is also confirmed by, among other things, a cut inflicted by a sharp blade, most likely a sword or knife, on the mentum and a fissure of the right tibia (grave 91), an injury on the right femur (grave 99) and a myositis ossificans traumaticanoted on the left tibia (grave 141)."

    Out of those equestrian units, the pseudocomitatenses Timacenses auxiliarii are especially mentioned as having an "Alano-Hunnic steppe component". However it's just as likely that these grave burials belonged to the II Aurelia Dardanorum or Numeri Dalmatorum who likely were made up of a more local Balkan component.
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 08-29-2020 at 12:03 PM.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817 (Y179831)

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS1273*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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