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Thread: Algorithm update 23andMe.

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by dosas View Post
    Greek Sarakatsan/Karakachan results (father's match):

    Do you know if she has any gedmatch results?

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  3. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    I think I understand why the algorithm is doing such a bad job in some cases. I just realized it made my Chromosome Painting basically like I had one 100% European parent and one 100% WANA parent. I know that the first step of the algorithm is to phase (even if a parent has not tested) and it seems that this step in the pipeline is terribly inaccurate. Proper phasing can only occur when a parent tests, and so the majority of this 'guessed phasing' is totally wrong for some people like myself.

    Here's a tiny piece of my Chromosome painting so you can see what is happening:



    Pretty much every Chromosome looks as if one of my parent was 100% European, and the other was 100% WANA.

    In reality, both my father and mother would be 50/50 European and WANA themselves, so this assumption they are making during the phasing process is what causes the terribly inaccurate results in Dodecanese islanders. And it is why after phasing, the Broadly increases dramatically (up to 60% in one of matches that has phased) instead decreasing - because the real phasing ends up with two totally different phased haplotypes compared to the original 'guessed phasing'.

    Perhaps this is why AncestryDNA seems to fair much better with Dodecanese results - I heard it has a propriety phasing engine developed by themselves, while 23andMe is using the software Beagle. I don't know much about the actual process of using software like Beagle, but I can tell it is what ruins the results of certain ethnic groups.
    Very true. And obviously with your chromosomes being incorrectly phased, it creates an even greater bias with respect to the smoothing, making it more likely to miss minor closely related ethnicities in their assessed segments. Definitely needs some work still.

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  5. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Any news on your French ancestor hunt? will you be trading your Portuguese egg-tart (sorry can't remember the proper name) in for a baguette?
    Pastéis de Nata or Natas - delicious. Lots of bakeries in Toronto. Have been eating them since I was a kid in the 1970’s

    P.S. Maybe a good reason to not want an update on my V.4 results - I get to keep my 1.1% Spanish & Portuguese.
    Last edited by Aroon1916; 10-24-2020 at 03:00 PM.

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  7. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by xripkan View Post
    Do you know if she has any gedmatch results?
    I'll ask but I don't think so, will PM if she does.
    55.8% Greek Central Macedonia + 44.2% Greek Trabzon @ 1.46

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  9. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geborgenheit View Post
    I see that it tends to give you 95%-100% of one ethnicity, while completely ignoring other ethnicities. Previously, the problem with 23&me was that they gave many minor ancestries which were not true, but now it is not realistic either.

    All 17 Eastern European regions which they give me are not true. I have records of all 8 great-grandparents and 11 out of 16 great-great-grandparents. They could just guess at least one, but no, they have guessed 0. And they ignore the information about my grandparents which they have.
    What are your regions? Do you get Russia?

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  11. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    I think I understand why the algorithm is doing such a bad job in some cases. I just realized it made my Chromosome Painting basically like I had one 100% European parent and one 100% WANA parent. I know that the first step of the algorithm is to phase (even if a parent has not tested) and it seems that this step in the pipeline is terribly inaccurate. Proper phasing can only occur when a parent tests, and so the majority of this 'guessed phasing' is totally wrong for some people like myself.

    Here's a tiny piece of my Chromosome painting so you can see what is happening:



    Pretty much every Chromosome looks as if one of my parent was 100% European, and the other was 100% WANA.

    In reality, both my father and mother would be 50/50 European and WANA themselves, so this assumption they are making during the phasing process is what causes the terribly inaccurate results in Dodecanese islanders. And it is why after phasing, the Broadly increases dramatically (up to 60% in one of matches that has phased) instead decreasing - because the real phasing ends up with two totally different phased haplotypes compared to the original 'guessed phasing'.

    Perhaps this is why AncestryDNA seems to fair much better with Dodecanese results - I heard it has a propriety phasing engine developed by themselves, while 23andMe is using the software Beagle. I don't know much about the actual process of using software like Beagle, but I can tell it is what ruins the results of certain ethnic groups.
    Very helpful insight.
    Many of my matches have parents who are half English/half German, so this phasing would mess with them in the same way it did with yours.
    I am in the fortunate position of having one parent on one side and one on the other.
    Thanks again for your post.

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  13. #307
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    The update was good for me. I have my Dad and three grandparents born in Belfast and my maternal grandmother was Quebecoise. Having Glasgow and Donegal at the top of my B&I list remains correct and they have added back my Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Outer Hebrides) on my Britain list, which matches with my 2X Great Grandfather from South Uist. The sum of my French and Spanish & Portuguese equals nearly 25%, so that seems to match my grandmother.

    When they get my Na h-Eileanan na Iar and County Cavan (where my Erskine family lived before moving to Belfast), I know they're doing something right.

    23 and me update 0ct 2020.png
    Last edited by MacEochaidh; 10-25-2020 at 07:51 PM.
    Y-DNA R-DF23>ZP149>ZP171 MDKA Thomas Doherty, b. 1825, Three Trees, Donegal, Ireland.
    mtDNA T2g1 MDKA Francoise Arguin, b. 1698, Camaret-Sur-Mer, Bretagne, France

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  15. #308
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    Wow!

    I had not realized until just now that my 23andMe results had been updated. I went from (as I recall) about 71% British and Irish (way too low) to 97% British and Irish as of this morning.

    That is much more accurate and reflective of what I know from my pedigree and surnames.

    Still getting 2.4% Southern European, which shows up no place else, not in my AncestryDNA or FTDNA Family Finder results, with some trace ancestry accounting for the rest, including some Finnish, which always shows up everywhere.

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  17. #309
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    My parents and I tested on and older version in 2012 so from I’ve read we may not get this update.

    Father has been and is currently 72% British and Irish, Mother is 67% and I’m 63%.
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
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  19. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buxoro View Post
    What are your regions? Do you get Russia?
    I get Russia, Poland and Ukraine. Moscow oblast of course. Absolutely ridiculous. They give me 7 regions in Ukraine (totally there are 26) and all are wrong and I have hundreds, if not thousands of years ancestry in Ukraine. I feel sorry for those who do not know their documented ancestry (especially adoptees) and try to trace something based on regions of 23&me. 23&me is very bad for Eastern Europe.
    Last edited by Geborgenheit; 10-25-2020 at 07:10 PM.

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