Page 1 of 13 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 124

Thread: Germanics in G25 (unscaled)

  1. #1
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,533
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    SGC+TRB Creool
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V22

    Netherlands

    Germanics in G25 (unscaled)

    Based on the G25 samples I have made a subdivision into three Germanic subgroups from the early Middle Ages / migration period. I apply this classification to the modern 'Germanic countries' and some members of anthrogenica in particular.
    A Germanic genetic nucleus does not exist. Nevertheless, there are a number of grouped 'Germanic' samples in G25 that show overlap but also have their own individuality.

    Germanic subdivision
    I notice the following division:
    - the Bavarian samples, from the fifth and sixth century, taken from Veeramah et al (2018), in all likelihood these are 'Elbe Germans' who, according to wiki.de and David Wesolswki (Eurogenes) they can be seen as 'West Germanic' .
    - the Angel-Saxon samples mainly from Hinxton, from the period after the migration period, whether or not mixed (a little) with the Britons, but given the origin they can clearly be qualified as 'Northwest German'.
    - the Viking-Sigtuna samples of this Swedish city in the period from the tenth to the twelfth century, taken from Maja Krzewińska et al 2018 Partly due to their location in the East of Sweden, these samples can be characterized as 'Northeast Germanic.'

    Overlap
    When we look at the mutual comparison, it is striking that:
    - the West Germans have an overlap of 60% with the Northeast Germans and 40% with the Northwest Germans;
    - the NorthwestGermans have an overlap of 60% with the West Germans and 40% with the Northeast Germans;
    - the Northeast Germans have an overlap of 70% with the West Germans and 30% with the NorthwestGermans.

    The West Germans, with roots in the Elbe-Germans, are clearly the pivot, which is not surprising given the central geographic location (compared to the Anglo-Saxons to the North West and the Vikings to the North East).

    Seen from the perspective of the basic split 'hunter vs farmer vs shepherd', this is the subdivision



    National differences
    When looking at the differences between the modern population groups on a national basis, the following emerges:



    adds:
    -most western populations such as the Dutch and the Islands in the NW (Iceland, Orkney, Shetland) have no relationship with Northeast Germans;
    - for the Danes and Norwegians there is a limited degree of affinity with the Northeast Germans;
    - the relationship with the Northeast Germans is highest in Germany, Sweden and especially East Germany, although the distance is also increasing there (Slavic influence?);
    - West Germanic affinity is present across the entire range, but particularly in Denmark and Orkney, and is relatively lowest in Norway;
    - the Northwest Germanic affinity is a mirror image of the Northeast Germanic affinity high in Norway and absent in East Germany.

    Members Anthrogenica
    Translated to some members on Anthrogenica Radboud (Dutch), Evon (Norwegian) Snkves (Sweden) the Finn's (Northern Dutch), the subdivision is as follows:


    Some remarks:
    -there are quite a few deviations from the national average;
    -Radboud is in unison Northwestern Germanic, but falls considerably in distance, probably because a population component is missing (Southwestern Dutch influence?);
    -Evon deviates from the Norwegian image in that sense because he leans more towards the islands / Denmark, do we see a typical representative of Western Norway here?
    -Snvikes is unlike the Swedish mean, does not have a West Germanic component, it is remarkable that this mainly went towards NW Germanic (the differences are small!);
    -Within the Finns we see that the 'fit' is especially high with Finn Dad and that he tends to a Danish result (immediately high West Germanic) but a higher NW Germanic share than with the Danes (Northeast is only slightly present) . I think it’s due to his link with the North Sea migration amalgam (coastal heritage). Finn Mom is the most deviant not West Germanic and certainly for someone from the Netherlands a high 'Viking content' / Northeast Germanic (44% versus 0% Dutch average!),I do not think that with my great-great-grandparents the Vikings stood on the doorstep, but that her extremely high HG content (TRB-West?) in her sample is (mainly) due to this….

    Conclusion
    I think the division between West, Northwest and Northeast Germanic and the corresponding samples is useful and insightful. At the same time, the differences, especially between West Germanic and Northwest Germanic are small (vice versa: the overlap is large), and small deviations can have major consequences for the results.
    Last edited by Finn; 08-31-2020 at 07:56 AM.

  2. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Finn For This Useful Post:

     btree (09-12-2020),  Dewsloth (08-31-2020),  digital_noise (08-31-2020),  evon (09-10-2020),  JerryS. (08-30-2020),  jstephan (08-30-2020),  Mr.G (09-01-2020),  MrByron1967 (09-18-2020),  Nino90 (08-30-2020),  Radboud (08-30-2020),  sheepslayer (08-30-2020),  Telfermagne (09-01-2020),  Youenn (08-31-2020)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,317
    Sex
    Location
    America
    Ethnicity
    North & Ionian Seas
    Nationality
    American

    England Italy Germany Scotland
    fascinating. this helps me see how NW European groups are so intertwined. its no wonder I get such screwy results...
    Last edited by JerryS.; 08-31-2020 at 12:14 AM.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to JerryS. For This Useful Post:

     Finn (08-31-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,687
    Sex
    Location
    Bay Area
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-BY14160
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c
    mtDNA (P)
    I1a1

    England Italy Sweden Netherlands
    Although likely impossible to fully understand, Id love to see how this affects commercial tests.
    distance%=4.6465"
    Barcin_N,47.2
    Yamnaya_Samara,41.4
    WHG,10.6
    Ethiopia_4500BP,0.8


    E-V13 => E-PH1246 => E-BY14160
    Antonio Reale born circa 1710, Ciminà (RC) Italy

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to digital_noise For This Useful Post:

     Finn (08-31-2020)

  7. #4
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,385
    Sex
    Location
    United States
    Ethnicity
    LebaGermish
    Y-DNA (P)
    P312>DF19>DF88
    mtDNA (M)
    J2a1a1e
    Y-DNA (M)
    J2a1 Z6065>Y7708>M47
    mtDNA (P)
    H1j

    United States of America Lebanon Germany United Kingdom Belgium Switzerland
    When/if the Viking paper results become public in the near future, they will be fun to compare.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Dewsloth For This Useful Post:

     Finn (08-31-2020)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,317
    Sex
    Location
    America
    Ethnicity
    North & Ionian Seas
    Nationality
    American

    England Italy Germany Scotland
    that Nation differences chart makes it look easy for someone like me with Scottish (supposedly some Highlands), English, and NW German to get an overload of Shetlandic with many of the DIYs based on all that overlap.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to JerryS. For This Useful Post:

     Finn (08-31-2020)

  11. #6
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    613
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    NorthWest European
    Nationality
    American Southerner
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b>L617 (England)
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5 (N.Ire)

    United States of America England Northern Ireland Scotland Wales Normandie
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    When/if the Viking paper results become public in the near future, they will be fun to compare.
    I recall you saying they were supposed to come out late August. Any word on anything?
    AncestryDNA results:
    England, Wales, & NW Europe 73%
    Ireland & Scotland 18%
    Germanic Europe 5%
    France 3%
    Cameroon, Congo 1%

    23&me results:
    British & Irish 62.9%
    French & German 15.0%
    Scandinavian 0.9%
    Broadly Northwestern European 19.4%
    Broadly Southern European 0.9%
    Broadly European 0.1%
    Sub-Saharan African 0.7%

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Garimund For This Useful Post:

     Finn (08-31-2020)

  13. #7
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,385
    Sex
    Location
    United States
    Ethnicity
    LebaGermish
    Y-DNA (P)
    P312>DF19>DF88
    mtDNA (M)
    J2a1a1e
    Y-DNA (M)
    J2a1 Z6065>Y7708>M47
    mtDNA (P)
    H1j

    United States of America Lebanon Germany United Kingdom Belgium Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Garimund View Post
    I recall you saying they were supposed to come out late August. Any word on anything?
    Last I heard:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post692738
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dewsloth For This Useful Post:

     Finn (08-31-2020),  Garimund (08-31-2020),  JMcB (08-31-2020)

  15. #8
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,533
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    SGC+TRB Creool
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    A view on the calendar

  16. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,863
    Sex
    Location
    Sweden
    Ethnicity
    Iron age Italic+Germanic
    Nationality
    Swedish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L2 / R1b-U152
    mtDNA (M)
    H1a1

    Sweden Italy Italy 1861-1946 Sami Vatican
    I just ordered G25 scales for two family members of full Swedish origin. I can run them with same samples later.
    Hidden Content

    Eurogenes K13 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
    1. 63.1% Swedish + 36.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.93

    Dodecad K12b
    1. 87,89% Szolad3 + 12,11% CHV001_Chalmny_Varre_18th-19th @ 1,131
    7. 66.4% Norwegian + 33.6% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 3.24


     

    Target: Nino
    Distance: 1.5423% / 0.01542331
    55.0 ISL_Viking_Age_Norse
    36.6 ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
    8.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA2


  17. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Nino90 For This Useful Post:

     Ariel90 (08-31-2020),  Finn (08-31-2020),  JMcB (08-31-2020),  Riverman (09-03-2020),  Youenn (08-31-2020)

  18. #10
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,533
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    SGC+TRB Creool
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    I just ordered G25 scales for two family members of full Swedish origin. I can run them with same samples later.
    would be nice!!!!

Page 1 of 13 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. MENA K18 - Unscaled
    By RickW85 in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 10-24-2020, 06:11 AM
  2. 12 Components Model - Unscaled
    By RickW85 in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-19-2020, 02:59 AM
  3. Unscaled vs scaled
    By firemonkey in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-11-2020, 04:26 PM
  4. Jastorf & Celts and Early Germanics
    By JMcB in forum History (Ancient)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-05-2018, 02:19 AM
  5. Replies: 41
    Last Post: 08-05-2014, 11:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •