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Thread: Early Indians by tony Joseph

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    Early Indians by tony Joseph

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Indians
    The book discusses four prehistoric migrations in India. The book posits that the Harappans were a mixture of Zagros agriculturists (from the modern-day Iran area) and First Indians, a wave of migrants who came from Africa into Arabia and then reached India around 65,000 years ago.[18][19] Citing recent DNA evidence, the book traces the subsequent large migrations of anatomically modern humans into India—of agriculturalists from Iran between 7000 and 3000 BCE and Indo-European languages speaking pastoralists from the Central Asian Steppe (Aryans) between 2000 and 1000 BCE, among others. Joseph uses the layers of a pizza as a metaphor to explain the make-up of subcontinental society.

    The book also discusses about similarities and differences between Indus Valley civilization and early Vedic civilization. The book mentions that "Aryan" culture was most likely the result of interaction, adoption and adaptation among those who brought Indo-European languages to India and those who were already well-settled inhabitants of the region, and that Sanskrit and the Vedas developed in the Indian subcontinent. Various tribes like the Andamanese and the Semang (Malay Peninsula), the Mani (Thailand) and the Aeta people (the Philippines) were the earliest inhabitants of Southeast Asia. According to Joseph, Proto-Dravidian is related to the Elamitic language of Iran. The caste system in India is a recent social system, reflected in sharply reduced inter-marriage (endogamy) and genetic mixing after 100 AD. This book also takes into account the path-breaking DNA research and findings from geneticist David Reich's research.


    What does the latest research say? Is this model of First Indians (Ethiopoiods probably), Zagros Iranians (Neolithic farmers probably0, Steppe Aryans, and then the veddoid (Austronesian) tribe admix is accurate?
    I thought the Aboriginals were the original and Dravidians came later. They also divide fair skinned Indians to Zagros mountaineers and Steppe people.

    Has anyone done the research on this? What is most accepted model by latest researchers on the origin of Early Indians?
    Sorry if this has been discussed before. I couldn't find any threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gildesh View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Indians
    The book discusses four prehistoric migrations in India. The book posits that the Harappans were a mixture of Zagros agriculturists (from the modern-day Iran area) and First Indians, a wave of migrants who came from Africa into Arabia and then reached India around 65,000 years ago.[18][19] Citing recent DNA evidence, the book traces the subsequent large migrations of anatomically modern humans into India—of agriculturalists from Iran between 7000 and 3000 BCE and Indo-European languages speaking pastoralists from the Central Asian Steppe (Aryans) between 2000 and 1000 BCE, among others. Joseph uses the layers of a pizza as a metaphor to explain the make-up of subcontinental society.

    The book also discusses about similarities and differences between Indus Valley civilization and early Vedic civilization. The book mentions that "Aryan" culture was most likely the result of interaction, adoption and adaptation among those who brought Indo-European languages to India and those who were already well-settled inhabitants of the region, and that Sanskrit and the Vedas developed in the Indian subcontinent. Various tribes like the Andamanese and the Semang (Malay Peninsula), the Mani (Thailand) and the Aeta people (the Philippines) were the earliest inhabitants of Southeast Asia. According to Joseph, Proto-Dravidian is related to the Elamitic language of Iran. The caste system in India is a recent social system, reflected in sharply reduced inter-marriage (endogamy) and genetic mixing after 100 AD. This book also takes into account the path-breaking DNA research and findings from geneticist David Reich's research.


    What does the latest research say? Is this model of First Indians (Ethiopoiods probably), Zagros Iranians (Neolithic farmers probably0, Steppe Aryans, and then the veddoid (Austronesian) tribe admix is accurate?
    I thought the Aboriginals were the original and Dravidians came later. They also divide fair skinned Indians to Zagros mountaineers and Steppe people.

    Has anyone done the research on this? What is most accepted model by latest researchers on the origin of Early Indians?
    Sorry if this has been discussed before. I couldn't find any threat.
    What's ethiopoid and veddioid? Some kind of ancient population?

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    Earliest Indians were definitely Andaman Islanders type population that came directly from Africa, even today we Indians/South Asians have a big big chunk of their dna, it's just that we have mixed with so many other migrants/invaders that came after. Some times I wish I could get a time machine and go back 10,000 years to meet my earliest ancestors in India, they were probably such nice/humble/simple people like present day Andaman Islanders, always smiling. The invasion/migrations have made India such a bad place actually, especially with the bloody caste inhumane caste system. I just watched a movie on this, what have we become and how bad we treat each other now, the society has become pure evil.
    Last edited by akash; 09-02-2020 at 05:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    Earliest Indians were definitely Andaman Islanders type population that came directly from Africa, even today we Indians/South Asians have a big big chunk of their dna, it's just that we have mixed with so many other migrants/invaders that came after. Some times I wish I could get a time machine and go back 10,000 years to meet my earliest ancestors in India, they were probably such nice/humble/simple people like present day Andaman Islanders, always smiling. The invasion/migrations have made India such a bad place actually, especially with the bloody caste inhumane caste system. I just watched a movie on this, what have we become and how bad we treat each other now, the society has become pure evil.
    Andaman Islanders were 70-90k YBP migration. Their unique YDNA D is not found anywhere in India. There was something in Holocene 18-16k YBP that is present widely all over India in some upper and middle and lower castes probably in C, F and H haplogroups. The South Indian middle castes also have big portion of this. This is what every one calling proto-Dravidian or proto-Elamite like. But more South Indians have the Andaman Islander like mix compared to North Indians
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Andaman Islanders were 70-90k YBP migration. Their unique YDNA D is not found anywhere in India. There was something in Holocene 18-16k YBP that is present widely all over India in some upper and middle and lower castes probably in C, F and H haplogroups. The South Indian middle castes also have big portion of this. This is what every one calling proto-Dravidian or proto-Elamite like. But more South Indians have the Andaman Islander like mix compared to North Indians
    Only Onge and Jarawas have YDNA D. The great Andamanese and other tribes have YDNA O,K,L, P1. YDNA O,K,L and P1 is also found all over India.

    2017 study by Mondal et al suggests that haplogroup D does not indicate a separate ancestry for Andamanese populations. Rather, haplogroup D was part of the standing variation carried by the OOA expansion, and later lost from most of the populations except in Andaman and partially in Japan and Tibet”.
    Last edited by Songtsen; 09-02-2020 at 05:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    Earliest Indians were definitely Andaman Islanders type population that came directly from Africa, even today we Indians/South Asians have a big big chunk of their dna, it's just that we have mixed with so many other migrants/invaders that came after. Some times I wish I could get a time machine and go back 10,000 years to meet my earliest ancestors in India, they were probably such nice/humble/simple people like present day Andaman Islanders, always smiling. The invasion/migrations have made India such a bad place actually, especially with the bloody caste inhumane caste system. I just watched a movie on this, what have we become and how bad we treat each other now, the society has become pure evil.
    Sentinelese are ferocious and have killed plenty of people that venture into the islands. We should also not paint the entire society with such broad brush. Regardless, political topics are only allowed in Atrium per the TOS:

    3.22 Political and religious discussion is only permitted in The Atrium.

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    My old idea of haplogroup D has been an island-hopping OOA migration that eventually stopped in Japan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    My old idea of haplogroup D has always been an island-hopping OOA migration that eventually stopped in Japan.
    I think haplotype D came to Inner/East Asia from Africa via Central Asia. D is not present in India so that rules out south of Himalaya route. I think D in Tibet came from xinjiang and D in came Japan from north East China.
    Last edited by Songtsen; 09-02-2020 at 05:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Andaman Islanders were 70-90k YBP migration. Their unique YDNA D is not found anywhere in India. There was something in Holocene 18-16k YBP that is present widely all over India in some upper and middle and lower castes probably in C, F and H haplogroups. The South Indian middle castes also have big portion of this. This is what every one calling proto-Dravidian or proto-Elamite like. But more South Indians have the Andaman Islander like mix compared to North Indians
    Their mtdna is found everywhere in India. Also obviously they are not the same, but more like cousins, they were all part of the first wave out of africa that came into India, then spread in to South East Asia/Australia

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Sentinelese are ferocious and have killed plenty of people that venture into the islands. We should also not paint the entire society with such broad brush. Regardless, political topics are only allowed in Atrium per the TOS:

    3.22 Political and religious discussion is only permitted in The Atrium.
    Yes not the best place to discuss, but just watched a movie on how bad things are in India in the North, especially obviously in villages. Also I am not talking about kill to defend their lands, they probably remember what british did, killed them in mass, they are scared/vary of any outsiders. The Andamanese overall are so peaceful/happy among themselves, they have been many documentaries on them that document this.
    Last edited by akash; 09-02-2020 at 06:38 PM.

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