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Thread: The myth of Arabization

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    The myth of Arabization

    The myth of Arabization is quite a common myth that creates revisionist history, and even tries to limit Arabization to Islamization, when this completely not true. The truth is Arabization pre-dates Islam like 400 years or even more in some cases especially in the area of the Syrian Desert and Jordan. Arabization is hard to define, but it certainly occurred more so in North Africa than it did in the Syrian Desert and Iraq, and especially Southern Iraq.

    Let's examine Southern Iraq historically. This region became inhabited by the Lakhmid Arabs. Who were the Lakhmid Arabs, they were an Arab tribe from Yemen who migrated to the region and becoming the rulers, as well other Arabian tribes joined in. They created the magnificent city of Al-Hira which is now known by it's Islamic name Kufa. The Lakhmids became part of the Persian Sassanid empire. The Lakhmids embraced Christianity, and well quite few of their population adhered to Arabian Goddess cults and Zoroastrianism.

    Moving to Jordan and Southern Syria, this region has been Arab inhabited before the classical age. Two important large tribal Arabian confederations have settled that is the Kedarites and Midianites. The Arabian origin and most importantly Bedouin background is given in the bible. The Nabateans a north Arabian tribe migrating from Central Arabia into Jordan and creating the impressive civilization of Petra. Who were the Nabateans an Arabian tribe that spoke Arabic. Why the shift to Aramaic, and eventually creating their own unique dialect. The reason because it was lingua franca. We can also find the Arabian origins in the bible confirmed.

    Migration of the Ghassanid tribal confederation into the Levant reducing the Nabateans into vassals. Ghassanids adopt Christianity and rule on behalf of the Byzantines to the dismay of the pagan nomadic Bedouin Arabs. Ghassanids were an Arabian tribal confederation themselves.

    As for Iraq, Arabian migration never ended. However both the Mongol and Timurid invasions seem to have left a gap in Iraq. This when Arabian Bedouin tribes start migrating in Iraq and settling in the region. These Bedouin tribes are well established and their ties to Arabia is quite recent, and some even maintain this relationship to this day.

    Now looking at the genetics of Jordanians, Southern Syrians, and Iraqi Arabs we find they are all the same people and have the same linkage to that of the Arabians of Arabia. This indicate to us Arabization is nothing more than wishful nonsense who want to deny the Arabian ancestry and they often also exaggerate the SSA admixture found Arabia for their malicious intent.

    So to call modern Iraqi Arabs especially those who belong to the large Shammar, Anizah, Rawallah, Bani Tamim, and Al-Muntafaq to be non-Arabs or Arabized they will give you a laugh. This is also true of Southern Syria and Jordan. Just tell a Huwaytat, Attayah, or Bani Shacker Jordanian the response would be the same.

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    Jordan Jabal Shammar Yemen Adygea Iraq
    Important map of Lakhmid and Ghassanid areas



    Arabian tribes in Iraq





    Note:Shammar Toga is clan of the Shammar tribe they are called Southern clans, well the Shammar in the north are called Northern clans belonging to the Abada/Jebali and Al-Jarba clan. As you can see the Bedouin tribes in this region are quite the majority, and all trace back to Arabia. So much for Arabization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanson View Post
    So to call modern Iraqi Arabs especially those who belong to the large Shammar, Anizah, Rawallah, Bani Tamim, and Al-Muntafaq to be non-Arabs or Arabized they will give you a laugh. This is also true of Southern Syria and Jordan. Just tell a Huwaytat, Attayah, or Bani Shacker Jordanian the response would be the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanson View Post
    Note:Shammar Toga is clan of the Shammar tribe they are called Southern clans, well the Shammar in the north are called Northern clans belonging to the Abada/Jebali and Al-Jarba clan. As you can see the Bedouin tribes in this region are quite the majority, and all trace back to Arabia. So much for Arabization.
    Who is questioning the Arabian character of the above groups?

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    I don't think Arabization is myth, but it certainly doesn't apply to all Arabs, not even those in the Levant. However, there are Arabs, especially those in the Northern and Central parts of Iraq that are genetically indistinguishable from Assyrians. There are some Arabs from Baghdad for example, that cluster closely to Assyrians. The same applies to a lesser extent to some Syrians and Lebanese people especially the Christian populations.

    Euro_Test_K8 results for an Assyrian (me) and an Iraqi Arab from Baghdad.

    Me

    Maritime Neolithic 36.7%
    North European hunter gatherer + (Neolithic admixture) 2.8%
    Anatolian Neolithic 53.6%
    Sub-Saharan Africa 0%
    North Eurasian 0%
    East African 4.5%
    East Asian 0%
    South Asian 2.0%

    Iraqi Arab From Baghdad

    Maritime Neolithic 30.18%
    North European hunter gatherer + (Neolithic admixture) 5.28%
    Anatolian Neolithic 47.08%
    Sub-Saharan Africa 0%
    North Eurasian 0%
    East African 6.7%
    East Asian 1.5%
    South Asian 8.2%
    Last edited by ZephyrousMandaru; 02-09-2014 at 07:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru View Post
    I don't think Arabization is myth, but it certainly doesn't apply to all Arabs, not even those in the Levant. However, there are Arabs, especially those in the Northern and Central parts of Iraq that are genetically indistinguishable from Assyrians. There are some Arabs from Baghdad for example, that cluster closely to Assyrians. The same applies to a lesser extent, to some Syrians and Lebanese people especially the Christian populations.

    Euro_Test_K8 results for an Assyrian (me) and an Iraqi Arab from Baghdad.

    Me

    Maritime Neolithic 36.7%
    North European hunter gatherer + (Neolithic admixture) 2.8%
    Anatolian Neolithic 53.6%
    Sub-Saharan Africa 0%
    North Eurasian 0%
    East African 4.5%
    East Asian 0%
    South Asian 2.0%

    Iraqi Arab From Baghdad

    Maritime Neolithic 30.18%
    North European hunter gatherer + (Neolithic admixture) 5.28%
    Anatolian Neolithic 47.08%
    Sub-Saharan Africa 0%
    North Eurasian 0%
    East African 6.7%
    East Asian 1.5%
    South Asian 8.2%
    Hi Zephyrous,

    Is this calculator public?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sein View Post
    Hi Zephyrous,

    Is this calculator public?
    This analysis was done back in 2012 by Davidski. Unfortunately, there are no calculator files for it.

    This is the spreadsheet.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nVkM5M3c#gid=0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanson View Post
    Now looking at the genetics of Jordanians, Southern Syrians, and Iraqi Arabs we find they are all the same people and have the same linkage to that of the Arabians of Arabia.
    Not to be overly confrontational, but again you've regurgitated this statement without any actual genetic evidence to support it. Please share the genetic studies you're referring to that include Iraqi Arabs.

    This appears to be a response (or more accurately, a reaction) to a recent and very simple question I put to you about Iraqi Arabs (twice), which you completely ignored. Note that I did not debate the existence of Arab ancestry. I don't take issue with meaningful speculation - unless it's masqueraded as fact, which seems to be a recurring theme with your posts.
    Last edited by Ramza; 02-09-2014 at 08:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Who is questioning the Arabian character of the above groups?
    Well there is a certain someone who spread misinfo about Arabians, and the people of Iraq and the Middle East in general. He speaks like it's facts I don't want to mention his name. He also ignores that Arabization did not come with Islamization, since both the Ghassanids and Lakhmids were Arab speakers, and not to mention Kedarites and Midianites who are said to be of Arab Ishamelite origins in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru
    I don't think Arabization is myth, but it certainly doesn't apply to all Arabs, not even those in the Levant. However, there are Arabs, especially those in the Northern and Central parts of Iraq that are genetically indistinguishable from Assyrians. There are some Arabs from Baghdad for example, that cluster closely to Assyrians. The same applies to a lesser extent to some Syrians and Lebanese people especially the Christian populations.
    The myth of Arabization is when one equates it with Islamization, they are two different things. There are ethnic Arab Christians for example who affirm their Bedouin identity two of these tribes live in Jordan. One of them is even named after the Hejaz called Hejazeen. An Arabian Christian is an Arabian, regardless to what religion he belongs to. Well yes it indeed Arabization has occurred, and some populations will show this. I know some people in Central and Northern Iraq will indeed be Arabized. The problem is when people seem to state falsehoods like Arabization and Islamization are the same thing well they are not. For example my mom can convert to Christianity but this does not mean she is not of Arabian background. The problem I have is that people try to diminish the historical presence of Arabians, and even exaggerate minor admixture in this process in Arabia, and yes it does anger me to no end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza
    Not to be overly confrontational, but again you've regurgitated this statement without any actual genetic evidence to support it. Please share the genetic studies you're referring to that include Iraqi Arabs.

    This appears to be a response (or more accurately, a reaction) to a recent and very simple question I put to you about Iraqi Arabs (twice), which you completely ignored. Note that I did not debate the existence of Arab ancestry. I don't take issue with meaningful speculation - unless it's masqueraded as fact, which seems to be a recurring theme with your posts.
    Well the McDonald system seems it can't really make a difference between Iraqi Arabs and ethnic Saudis, and especially Iraqi Arabs from the South. That said indeed there will be some Arabized populations in Iraq and this is to be expected. I believe that Western Iraqis to be very much the same as Southern Iraqis with slight differences. Well Iraqi Arabs from the North, Center will show various degrees of Arabization. For example I never denied you will find Arabized Persians in the shrine cities, or Assyrians in North, but I believe the vast majority of Iraqi Arabs not to be of Arabized stock and this would fit in the geographical area. In the North the Arabs who still hold tribal names and live in a Bedouin lifestyle seem to be non-Arabized.

    look at this result of a Southern Iraqi Arab:

    S Iraqi: The program says you are a bad fit to our Iranian comparison
    population. A good fit is 87% Bedouin and the rest Sindhi.


    However, the spot on the map is near Ar Rass, Saudi Arabia. Sometimes the program gets it somewhat wrong; This one is at the outside edge of a normal error distance.

    The chromosome painting is typical of people from either Saudi Arabia or Iraq.
    Last edited by Alanson; 02-10-2014 at 01:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanson View Post
    Well there is a certain someone who spread misinfo about Arabians, and the people of Iraq and the Middle East in general. He speaks like it's facts I don't want to mention his name. He also ignores that Arabization did not come with Islamization, since both the Ghassanids and Lakhmids were Arab speakers, and not to mention Kedarites and Midianites who are said to be of Arab Ishamelite origins in the bible.
    OK. But, how about bringing your dispute to a forum where he is actually registered and where you have posting privileges (e.g. The Apricity)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    OK. But, how about bringing your dispute to a forum where he is actually registered and where you have posting privileges (e.g. The Apricity)?
    Co-signed.

    I appreciate someone is spreading misinformation regarding the Arab people and there is a perception these spurious claims need to be addressed but this forum is supposed to be for discussion. It is near-impossible to properly discuss this topic when it is directed at someone who, as I gather it, probably isn't on this forum.

    For this thread to be feasible, I'd kindly advise redirecting attention to the discussion that's already been generated (as this is an interesting topic) whilst debating with this certain someone on a mutually accessible platform.

    The burning question I have for Alanson is, what is the basis for your belief that the majority of Iraqi Arabs are mostly Arabian in their genetic ancestry? That isn't to say I necessarily disagree with you; is there any hard evidence indicating this?

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