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Thread: Albanian Malesors and Montenegrin Brda: Tribal Relations, Mixing & History

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjenetiks View Post
    V13 Albanians from Grude tested and got E-BY168279+? I think it would make it clear that some Albos from Grude originally came from Triesh.

    Interesting that from oral traditions, large part of Trieshi claim descent from Ban Keqi, brother of Lazer Keqi apparently founder of Hoti Tribe. But Hoti are I believe mostly or solely? J2b-L83. That oral theory's gotta be debunked then, since Bankeqi are E-BY168279+.
    Yes, he is from the Huskaj branch of the Ivezaj. It's an interesting result as another Ivezaj has also tested, and they are J2b-Y82533 which is more typical for Gruda. It seems that there is some diversity even among families with the same last name which is very surprising.

    I can't really say for sure if the E-BY168279 in Grudė is directly from Trieshi or vice-versa since none of these families have knowledge of having come from elsewhere, and I am not sure what the TMRCA shared between them is. But, BY168279 does seem to be centered in this area of Malėsi so there may have been some historical overlap.

    The bulk of the Trieshi do indeed claim to descend from a certain Ban Keqi, who was the son of Keqi and the brother of Lazėr Keqi (Hoti), Merkota Keqi (Mrkojevići/Mėrkota), Kaster Keqi (Krasniqi and Nikaj), Vas Keqi (Vasojevići), and Piper Keqi (Piperi). All of the tribes that claim to descend from these six brothers belong to different Y-DNA haplogroups, so it's clear that the claims of common paternal origin are fictional. However, in the defter of the Sanjak of Shkodra of 1485 a settlement called Bankeq does show up in the nahiya of Kuēi with 11 households, so a Ban Keqi that was the progenitor of much of the later Trieshi tribe must have actually existed. On top of this, in the nahiya of Hoti, a certain Stanash Keqi is recorded as the head of a settlement called Geg. It is likely that Keqi was a patronym, indicating that a Keqi existed, also the name of this settlement reflects the tradition that the Hoti descend from Geg Lazri, son of Lazėr Keqi.
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 09-12-2020 at 04:04 PM.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjenetiks View Post
    It's interesting that the lulgjuraj in Grude, IIRC have 3 different haplos, V13, r1b, j2b. That lulgjuraj v13 might be triesh, I forgot which subclade they got. I believe I am related to lulgjuraj and frluckaj, though unsure from which side on my fathers side.

    It'd be nice to see a list of all the known families from that came from Grude, or Triesh. A lot that's out there is incomplete.
    The families or brotherhoods from Gruda and Trieshi are actually listed on the Wikipedia sites for these tribes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruda_(tribe)#Families, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trieps...)#Brotherhoods.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Yes, the Jashari family of Prekaz belong to the Kuēi tribe. The Kuēi of Drenica can be found in the following villages: Prekaz, Prekaz i Epėrm, Galicė, Tėrnac, Mikushnicė, Obri e Epёrme and Obri e Poshtme. The villages all claim to stem from the same paternal ancestor, and so do not intermarry. The Kuēi of Prekaz, specifically, claim a certain Prekė Kuēi as their common ancestor. Oral tradition states that Preka also had three brothers: Obri, Luta and Biba. the villages of Obri e Epёrme and Obri e Poshtme claim ancestry from Obri. Whilst Luta is said to have settled in the village of Lutogllavė near Peja. Biba himself remained in Montenegro, though his son Kola is considered to be the ancestor of the families from Tėrnac and Galicė. The brothers are said to have arrived sometime during the end of the 17th or start of the 18th century and were Catholics.

    A guy from Tėrnac has tested with the Albanian Y-DNA Project and is E-L241. I believe one from Galicė has tested via 23andme and also belonged to that haplogroup. So it's pretty clear that the Jashari, and the rest of the Kuēi of Drenica, are in fact E-L241. What's interesting is that this group has yet to be found among the Kuēi of Montenegro or Albania.
    But it does appear in Kukės. I think that here we have a case of adopted farefisni. Basically, a family or a cluster of families gets adopted into a larger fis. The fis i vogėl adopts the name of the other fis and also an orphan son of the smaller fis gets adopted by a family of the larger fis which has no sons. So, the Jashari are not Kuēi, otherwise they would belong to the same E-V13 cluster as Kuēi. They're probably a local fis of central Kosovo.

  4. #24
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    What do the results of Kosovo Serbs look like (assuming we even have significant sample sizes to go off)? Are they more related to Montenegrins, other Serbs, or Albanians?

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     trdbr1234 (09-15-2020)

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TuaMan View Post
    What do the results of Kosovo Serbs look like (assuming we even have significant sample sizes to go off)? Are they more related to Montenegrins, other Serbs, or Albanians?
    I am also very curious about this.

    However this debate might be politically charged. Without a proper peer-reviewed study, I wouldn't trust results so much.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by trdbr1234 View Post
    I am also very curious about this.

    However this debate might be politically charged. Without a proper peer-reviewed study, I wouldn't trust results so much.
    I think there are some Kosovo Serbs who are Serbianized Albo's, though I don't think all of them are like this. A lot of Kosovo Serbs came originally from Montenegro.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TuaMan View Post
    What do the results of Kosovo Serbs look like (assuming we even have significant sample sizes to go off)? Are they more related to Montenegrins, other Serbs, or Albanians?
    It has been stated on another thread that around 380 Kosovo Serbs have been tested through the Serbian Y-DNA Project, but the full results haven't been made public yet. And based on these results, the most dominant Y-DNA haplogroup was I2a-Y3120 at ~32%, however it was followed by E-V13 at ~23.16%. This percentage of V13 is more similar to that of the Albanians.

    From what Pribislav mentioned, most of the V13 can be broken down into these clusters: E-Z13591 (Bjelopavlići cluster), E-Y37092 (Vasojevići cluster), E-BY5423, E-Z38456, E-L241, and E-FGC11450. It is clear that the first two clusters are not local or native, but rather arrived more recently with migrants from Montenegro (Bjelopavlić and Vasojević specifically). E-Z38456, E-L241, and E-FGC11450 are all major V13 clusters present among Albanians, and it wouldn't surprise me if a number of these Serbs closely match those Albanians. On the other hand, E-BY5423 has yet to found among Albanians.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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     gjenetiks (09-15-2020)

  10. #28
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    Yeah, it looks like during Late Bronze Age Balkans started to get dominated by E-V13. I have no doubt Dardanians and Illyrians from Albania/Montenegro will be predominantly E-V13 as well.

  11. #29
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    It's interesting how I get a Northern Italian, West shifted resulted on my K36 LM Genetics Ancestral report. It's the same typical plot as most Albanians just shifted to North Italy. Is this common for other Albo's? I think a lot of what people think could be slavic admix, might just be a natural west shift in albanians, as slavic dna's not getting picked up in many tests. I also score 0.6% Italian on my 23andme.
    Last edited by gjenetiks; 09-16-2020 at 04:47 AM.

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjenetiks View Post
    It's interesting how I get a Northern Italian, West shifted resulted on my K36 LM Genetics Ancestral report. It's the same typical plot as most Albanians just shifted to North Italy. Is this common for other Albo's? I think a lot of what people think could be slavic admix, might just be a natural west shift in albanians, as slavic dna's not getting picked up in many tests. I also score 0.6% Italian on my 23andme.
    Illyrians were far more Italian shifted than Albanians, so Albanians being shifted to North Italy makes sense. But, we also have Slavic admixture. It's undeniable.

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