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Thread: Albanian Malesors and Montenegrin Brda: Tribal Relations, Mixing & History

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    On the other hand, E-BY5423 has yet to found among Albanians.
    Well obviously that one it's of Eastern or Central Balkan origin so Thracian and not Illyrian. It's obvious by its upstream cousins found in Armenia(Phrygians and Thracians) and Chuvashes(Scythians). While on the other hand, typically Albanian lineages have upstream cousins in Italy as it's the case with R-Z2705 which points to their Western Balkan and Illyrian origin.
    Also for E-BY5423 I can see by YFULLs tree that there isn't much diversity in the Serbo-Croat areas and all descend from a man living around 800 ybp. While there is a Macedonian from Skopje forming a parallel branch to the Serbo-Croat one with TMRCA of 850 ybp, there is a Bulgarian from Haskovo, the Bulgarian part of Thracia, that forms a parallel branch of E-BY5423 with TMRCA between them of around 2200 ybp.
    So the diversity is clearly in the Bulgaro-Macedonian areas. If the samples of Kosovo are also positive for the Serbo-Croat branch downstream of E-BY5423 then there is nothing to argue here but these would clearly be descendants of a migrant to the Western Balkans that probably came from Macedonia. Whether it was a migration of Eastern Romance speakers or Bulgarian speakers, the fact remains that the patterns show that E-BY5423 is clearly of Eastern-Central Balkan origin and not Illyrian one.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Some other sources I have read actually state that the mother of Marko Miljanov was also from Kuči/Kuçi, but belonged to the Milić brotherhood of Orahovo. The Milići belong to the Old Kuči (Staro Kuči or Mrnjavčići), unlike the Popovići whom belong to the Drekalovići. Though I do know that some, such as Robert Elsie, have claimed that his mother was a Catholic Albanian.
    Is the Drekalovići E-V13 clade closely elated to the E-V13 clades among any Albanians?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Illyrians were far more Italian shifted than Albanians, so Albanians being shifted to North Italy makes sense. But, we also have Slavic admixture. It's undeniable.
    Yeah albos do have slavic, I think I look more slavic than most albanians and probably have more than most. Though 23andme seems to be bad for showing you slavic autosomal percentages, and this is with taking raw data and uploading it to third party sites. I don't rate 23andme highly. The best autosomal tests are probably FTDNA and Ancestry. What they did with v5 changed algorithm for the worse for GEDmatch.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Is the Drekalovići E-V13 clade closely elated to the E-V13 clades among any Albanians?
    Both the Drekalovići and Old Kuči are primarily E-BY165837, which is a downstream of BY168279 and has a TMRCA of ~550 ybp. As can be seen on the Yfull tree, E-BY168279 has a TMRCA of ~1,350 ybp and is represented by an Albanian from Tirana who, I believe, forms another cluster with Albanians from the Trieshi tribe (Bankeqi) and a part of the Gruda. So the Kuči cluster and the Albanian one diverged from a common ancestor sometime around the Early Middle Ages. Should also note that there are in fact Albanians from the Kuçi tribe or Koja that are BY165837+.

    What's clear is that Y-DNA testing and historical sources attest to the fact that the bulk of the Kuçi/Kuči are of Albanian paternal origin, and that due to different factors there was a shift towards the Slavic language and Orthodox faith. Though this change did happen rather early on and isn't much of a recent change from what I have gathered.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Both the Drekalovići and Old Kuči are primarily E-BY165837, which is a downstream of BY168279 and has a TMRCA of ~550 ybp. As can be seen on the Yfull tree, E-BY168279 has a TMRCA of ~1,350 ybp and is represented by an Albanian from Tirana who, I believe, forms another cluster with Albanians from the Trieshi tribe (Bankeqi) and a part of the Gruda. So the Kuči cluster and the Albanian one diverged from a common ancestor sometime around the Early Middle Ages. Should also note that there are in fact Albanians from the Kuçi tribe or Koja that are BY165837+.

    What's clear is that Y-DNA testing and historical sources attest to the fact that the bulk of the Kuçi/Kuči are of Albanian paternal origin, and that due to different factors there was a shift towards the Slavic language and Orthodox faith. Though this change did happen rather early on and isn't much of a recent change from what I have gathered.
    Ahhh ok thank you...It is nice to see genetics backing up the tradition that they are originally of Albanian origins. You mentioned that the Drekalovići are "primarily" E- BY165837+...Are some of them not E-BY165837+ as well then?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Ahhh ok thank you...It is nice to see genetics backing up the tradition that they are originally of Albanian origins. You mentioned that the Drekalovići are "primarily" E- BY165837+...Are some of them not E-BY165837+ as well then?
    Well there are some families from around Sandžak that claim to be from the Drekalovići but belong to different Y-DNA haplogroups. For example, the Agići from Biševo claim to have arrived from Medun and that they are descended from the Ilikovići branch of Drekalović but, are in fact R-Z2705>BY38894 and not E-BY165837. This is just a case where a smaller family was accepted or adopted into a larger tribe, and ended up identifying as a part of that tribe despite being of different paternal origins.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Kelmendasi For This Useful Post:

     J Man (09-17-2020)

  8. #37
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    Bulgarians/Macedonians should be cautious to be taken as examples, they are very mixed and confusing population, their Slavic ancestors initially mixed with natives of Pannonia probably acquiring some E-V13 and then in Thrace acquring some other E-V13 subclades.

  9. #38
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    Albanian politician Dritan Abazovic is a big player in Montenegrin politics right now. Apparently the origin of his family could be that Abazovic's came from the village of Pecurice in Mrkojevici. These Abazovic some say descend from a person named Marko who converted to Islam. Both the Abazovic and Barjamovic in Pecurice descend supposedly from Marko. Marko is a name I think more prevalent among Serbs than Albanians but common in both. But Marko's brother's name was Ivo a name common among Serbs, Croats.

    This could indicate that Dritan Abazovic could actually be an Albanized Serb. Mrkojevici sort of like Crmnica, was a place with Albanian influence and some slavic-albanian mingling, so this could as a result of this.

    I do think however that Dritan's mother is Albanian. It could also be that he doesn't descend from the Abazovic/Abazi in Mrkojevici but a native Abazovic/Abazi in Ulqin.


    EDIT: This is all fake news, he has origins from Kruje, Albania and is NOT from Mrkojevici
    Last edited by gjenetiks; 09-17-2020 at 10:43 PM.

  10. #39
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    Dritan spoke of his origin in a tv show and said that his ancestors came to Ulqin from Kruje.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Dritan spoke of his origin in a tv show and said that his ancestors came to Ulqin from Kruje.
    Yes he said this on Euronews Albania, I believe he said there was a fshat in Kruje called Abazaj and that he is an Abazi. I think he was trying to make some sort of connection based off of this, but that's not usually how it works. He did however say if I recall correctly, that the people of the village say that he is related to them. So it's something.

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