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Thread: How much Celtic DNA do Turkish people have?

  1. #21
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    I also find some Slavic admixture in western Anatolian Greeks and Turks in genetic analyses, which is in line with the historical Slavic colonization in western Anatolia during the Byzantine era. But without a decent number of ancient DNA results from Anatolia of classical antiquity, we cannot make precise estimates of Slavic ancestry in Anatolia.

    Most of the steppe (Yamnaya-like) ancestry of Anatolian Turks comes from Anatolian Greeks according to my analyses, but still a big amount of it comes from the Oghuz/Turcoman invaders:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...kkE/edit#gid=0
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    Paternal grandfather's mtDNA: H2a1; Nigde, Turkey
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    Father's maternal Y-DNA: R1b>P312>U152>L2>Z41150>DF90>FGC14641>FGC32041; Nigde, Turkey

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onur Dincer View Post
    I also find some Slavic admixture in western Anatolian Greeks and Turks in genetic analyses, which is in line with the historical Slavic colonization in western Anatolia during the Byzantine era. But without a decent number of ancient DNA results from Anatolia of classical antiquity, we cannot make precise estimates of Slavic ancestry in Anatolia.

    Most of the steppe (Yamnaya-like) ancestry of Anatolian Turks comes from Anatolian Greeks according to my analyses, but still a big amount of it comes from the Oghuz/Turcoman invaders:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...kkE/edit#gid=0
    What's up with ITA_Collegno_MA_o2? Why does he have so much East Asian?

  4. #23
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    Are you all talking about the Smyrna/Izmir Greek samples on G25 when you say "Western Anatolian Greeks?" If so, there is clear evidence of Slavic admixture. It certainly could have come from actual Slavic speaking tribes, but Slavic DNA could also have been brought by ethnic Greeks from the Mainland, or NE Aegean Islands as well in more recent times. The Smyrna Greeks are effectively modeled as a mixture of modern Island and Mainland Greek populations.

    Distance to: Greek_Smyrna
    0.01231924 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.02559051 Greek_Crete
    0.02744530 Greek_Thessaly
    0.02997588 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.03208609 Greek_Kos
    0.05620694 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.08555498 Greek_Trabzon

    Target: Greek_Smyrna
    Distance: 0.8597% / 0.00859667 | ADC: 1x
    85.8 Greek_Peloponnese
    14.2 Greek_Crete

    Target: Greek_Smyrna
    Distance: 0.6896% / 0.00689617 | ADC: 0.5x
    74.8 Greek_Peloponnese
    25.2 Greek_Crete

    Target: Greek_Smyrna
    Distance: 0.5755% / 0.00575504 | ADC: 0.25x
    54.0 Greek_Peloponnese
    20.4 Greek_Crete
    11.2 Greek_Kos
    10.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    4.4 Greek_Thessaly

    Target: Greek_Smyrna
    Distance: 0.4993% / 0.00499347
    38.4 Greek_Kos
    29.4 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    24.4 Greek_Peloponnese
    7.6 Greek_Thessaly
    0.2 Greek_Crete

    Same with Roopkund B, although this sample has more Greek Islander and is from Ottoman times, not Byzantine.

    Target: IND_Roopkund_B
    Distance: 0.6874% / 0.00687423
    40.8 Greek_Kos
    30.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    28.4 Greek_Crete

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  6. #24
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    Smyrniotes seem to be somewhat transitional, bridging the gap between the mainland and the islands:



    About half of the samples seem to be firmly within the Eastern Mediterranean continuum (mostly those that are highlighted), the other half is clearly closer to the Peloponnesian samples here. I suspect we might see something similar in the Northern Aegean, with some islands (such as Thassos) having absorbed a greater amount of Slavic admixture and therefore appearing to be closer to the mainland while others will have considerably less and will also end up in the East Med continuum closer to Cretans. It would be nice to have more data from the different islands, not just from Crete and the Cyclades but the Sporades, Lemnos, Chios, Kythera and others. And of course, Maniots and Tsakonians would be interesting for similar reasons.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 09-16-2020 at 12:38 AM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by anvilmar View Post
    What's up with ITA_Collegno_MA_o2? Why does he have so much East Asian?
    No idea. I cannot ascribe the results of that sample to any one population, probably a recently mixed individual. Northern Italy during the Middle Ages was a more cosmopolitan place than most parts of Europe, this can explain the outlier samples.
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    Father's mtDNA: T2b; Nigde, Turkey
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    Father's maternal Y-DNA: R1b>P312>U152>L2>Z41150>DF90>FGC14641>FGC32041; Nigde, Turkey

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greekscholar View Post
    Are you all talking about the Smyrna/Izmir Greek samples on G25 when you say "Western Anatolian Greeks?" If so, there is clear evidence of Slavic admixture. It certainly could have come from actual Slavic speaking tribes, but Slavic DNA could also have been brought by ethnic Greeks from the Mainland, or NE Aegean Islands as well in more recent times. The Smyrna Greeks are effectively modeled as a mixture of modern Island and Mainland Greek populations.

    Distance to: Greek_Smyrna
    0.01231924 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.02559051 Greek_Crete
    0.02744530 Greek_Thessaly
    0.02997588 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.03208609 Greek_Kos
    0.05620694 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.08555498 Greek_Trabzon

    Target: Greek_Smyrna
    Distance: 0.8597% / 0.00859667 | ADC: 1x
    85.8 Greek_Peloponnese
    14.2 Greek_Crete

    Target: Greek_Smyrna
    Distance: 0.6896% / 0.00689617 | ADC: 0.5x
    74.8 Greek_Peloponnese
    25.2 Greek_Crete

    Target: Greek_Smyrna
    Distance: 0.5755% / 0.00575504 | ADC: 0.25x
    54.0 Greek_Peloponnese
    20.4 Greek_Crete
    11.2 Greek_Kos
    10.0 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    4.4 Greek_Thessaly

    Target: Greek_Smyrna
    Distance: 0.4993% / 0.00499347
    38.4 Greek_Kos
    29.4 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    24.4 Greek_Peloponnese
    7.6 Greek_Thessaly
    0.2 Greek_Crete

    Same with Roopkund B, although this sample has more Greek Islander and is from Ottoman times, not Byzantine.

    Target: IND_Roopkund_B
    Distance: 0.6874% / 0.00687423
    40.8 Greek_Kos
    30.8 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    28.4 Greek_Crete
    When speaking about Slavic admixture in western Anatolian Greeks, I have in mind analysis results such as this:

    2020-09-16 05_45_18-VahaduoJS 19.11.2 - Comodo Dragon.png
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    Y-DNA: R1b>P312>U152>L2>Z41150>DF90>FGC14641>FGC32041; Nigde, Turkey
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    Father's mtDNA: T2b; Nigde, Turkey
    Paternal grandfather's mtDNA: H2a1; Nigde, Turkey
    Maternal grandfather's mtDNA: H5o; Razgrad, Bulgaria
    Father's maternal Y-DNA: R1b>P312>U152>L2>Z41150>DF90>FGC14641>FGC32041; Nigde, Turkey

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  12. #27
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    Greek_Smyrna samples don't seem to be the actual native Greeks of Anatolia. Also, I wouldn't rely too much on Byzantine era forced-settlement records. Slavic settlers don't seem to be populous enough to make a significant genetic impact on the region.

    There is no reason for us to think that Western Anatolian Greeks had more Western Steppe (Yamnaya-like) ancestry than the Oghuz Turks. The only exception I can give is the Nortwestern Anatolian Turks. They tend to score higher Western Steppe (aka North European) than the rest.

    Anyways, it's a pointless discussion.
    Turkish DNA Project:

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leper View Post
    Greek_Smyrna samples don't seem to be the actual native Greeks of Anatolia. Also, I wouldn't rely too much on Byzantine era forced-settlement records. Slavic settlers don't seem to be populous enough to make a significant genetic impact on the region.

    There is no reason for us to think that Western Anatolian Greeks had more Western Steppe (Yamnaya-like) ancestry than the Oghuz Turks. The only exception I can give is the Nortwestern Anatolian Turks. They tend to score higher Western Steppe (aka North European) than the rest.

    Anyways, it's a pointless discussion.
    No one says Western Anatolian Greeks have or had more steppe (Yamnaya-like) ancestry than the Oghuz/Turcoman conquerors, it is not what I find in my analyses either, all I said, again based on my analyses results, is that most of the steppe ancestry of modern Anatolian Turks comes from their Anatolian Greek ancestors.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...kkE/edit#gid=0

    As for the Slavic input, as you can see in my other analysis, even Kos Greeks, who are genetically no different from Western Anatolian Greeks with no recent mainland Greek ancestry, show some Slavic input, however small.

    2020-09-16 05_45_18-VahaduoJS 19.11.2 - Comodo Dragon.png
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    Father's mtDNA: T2b; Nigde, Turkey
    Paternal grandfather's mtDNA: H2a1; Nigde, Turkey
    Maternal grandfather's mtDNA: H5o; Razgrad, Bulgaria
    Father's maternal Y-DNA: R1b>P312>U152>L2>Z41150>DF90>FGC14641>FGC32041; Nigde, Turkey

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  15. #29
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    Page 330
    http://en.kms.org.gr/Portals/0/O%20%...E%B1%CF%82.pdf

    One impressive analysis of available historical data from Ottoman, Greek and Western-European sources leads to a scientifically documented solution of the Asia Minor Greeks origin issue.The flourishing Hellenism of almost two millions which survived in the area of Asia Minor space until 1922-24 , can be seperated into two categories : a)The Greeks of Pontus and Cappadocia - plus some scattered places like Sille and Lisivio - are descendants of old Byzantine Greeks of Asia Minor who survived in these areas due to their geographical isolation and the existence of an independent Greek state in Pontus(until 1461) that preserved Hellenism during times of islamicization (ss 448-452). b) The dense Greek communities of Western Asia Minor stemming from migrations of Greeks from Aegean Islands ,Peloponnese and Mainland Greece settled there after Ottoman conquest.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DorianTA View Post
    Page 330
    http://en.kms.org.gr/Portals/0/O%20%...E%B1%CF%82.pdf

    One impressive analysis of available historical data from Ottoman, Greek and Western-European sources leads to a scientifically documented solution of the Asia Minor Greeks origin issue.The flourishing Hellenism of almost two millions which survived in the area of Asia Minor space until 1922-24 , can be seperated into two categories : a)The Greeks of Pontus and Cappadocia - plus some scattered places like Sille and Lisivio - are descendants of old Byzantine Greeks of Asia Minor who survived in these areas due to their geographical isolation and the existence of an independent Greek state in Pontus(until 1461) that preserved Hellenism during times of islamicization (ss 448-452). b) The dense Greek communities of Western Asia Minor stemming from migrations of Greeks from Aegean Islands ,Peloponnese and Mainland Greece settled there after Ottoman conquest.
    I know these. But those Ottoman-era Greek settlers came to Western Anatolia mostly from the nearby Aegean islands and we have little reason to think they were genetically not much like native Western Anatolian Greeks.
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    Father's mtDNA: T2b; Nigde, Turkey
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