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Thread: How much Celtic DNA do Turkish people have?

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    How much Celtic DNA do Turkish people have?

    Celts lived in Anatolia once and therefore I am think that Turks have more Celtic DNA than Arabs, Iranians, and Semites do.
    Last edited by rainn; 09-08-2020 at 01:04 AM.

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    Is there such a thing as Celtic DNA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainn View Post
    Celts lived in Anatolia once and therefore I am think that Turks have more Celtic DNA than Arabs, Iranians, and Semites do.
    I don't think that any of that Central/Western European DNA survived until this day autosomally. Maybe some Y-dna can be found at its most.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    I don't think that any of that Central/Western European DNA survived until this day autosomally. Maybe some Y-dna can be found at its most.
    But aren't Turks more Northwestern shifted than some West Asians such as Semites, Iranians, Arabians? As far as I know, Turks are also genetically more Western (Southwestern indeed) than North Caucasian people, although Turks are more East Eurasian than North Caucasians, Semites, Iranians, and Arabians. Turks' Western shift is due to their Celtic-Northwest European in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainn View Post
    But aren't Turks more Northwestern shifted than some West Asians such as Semites, Iranians, Arabians? As far as I know, Turks are also genetically more Western (Southwestern indeed) than North Caucasian people, although Turks are more East Eurasian than North Caucasians, Semites, Iranians, and Arabians. Turks' Western shift is due to their Celtic-Northwest European in my opinion.
    Turks euro admixture is mostly steppe related thanks to small central asian heritage, but its not northwestern euro, which is almost zero. Western turks do have balkan shift but again its not northwestern.

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    That "western pull" you are describing might just as well be due to what remained of the ancient Hittites, Phrygians, Lydians et alia, and also to what was left behind by Alexander's Macedonians and Greeks, or by the Romans of the Byzantine Empire. Probably to all of them to varying degrees.

    The Galatians may have left tenuous traces, but the PCA below doesn't support much of a properly "Celtic" influence. https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#WestEurasia

    Last edited by Andour; 09-08-2020 at 01:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainn View Post
    But aren't Turks more Northwestern shifted than some West Asians such as Semites, Iranians, Arabians? As far as I know, Turks are also genetically more Western (Southwestern indeed) than North Caucasian people, although Turks are more East Eurasian than North Caucasians, Semites, Iranians, and Arabians. Turks' Western shift is due to their Celtic-Northwest European in my opinion.
    They are more North-Western shifted because they have higher combination of Barcin+Steppe than most of the groups you mentioned. Semites are descendant of Neolithic Natufians mixed some Anatolian farmers and Neolithic Iranians. Similarly the Iranians are mostly the descandants of Neolithic people of Iran + Proto-Iranians steppe people+ some Anatolian farmer Barcin-like admixture. So the source for their Northern shift compared to other West Asians can be a great variety of peoples like the native BA Anatolians or people who settled there through the ages like Ancient Greeks, Thracians or Slavs. It would be interesting to see if any Celtic autosomal effect exists still in people from Anatolia but even if it does it must be very low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andour View Post
    That "western pull" you are describing might just as well be due to what remained of the ancient Hittites, Phrygians, Lydians et alia, and also to what was left behind by Alexander's Macedonians and Greeks, or by the Romans of the Byzantine Empire. Probably to all of them to varying degrees.

    The Galatians may have left tenuous traces, but the PCA below doesn't support much of a properly "Celtic" influence. https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#WestEurasia

    Your PCA descriptions have problems. The G25 West Eurasia PCA does not have any Kazakhs, what you label as Kazakhs are Kangju ancient DNA from what is now Kazakhstan. The Kangju were a Wusun-like genetically West Eurasian Iranic people of Central Asia with only about 10% East Eurasian ancestry.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DhK...ew?usp=sharing

    As for the Irish-Scottish, they are irrelevant. The Celtic tribes that came to Anatolia through the Balkans were originally from southern Gaul (what is now southern France).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatians_(people)

    Even if the Celts left more than noise levels of autosomal genetic legacy in some modern Anatolian Turks (and also some modern Anatolian Greeks), it is virtually impossible to be sure of that with the data we have. With increasing ancient genomes from Anatolia we may be able to answer that question, or maybe not.

    It is easier to track Celtic legacy through Y-DNA haplogroups. My own Y-DNA haplogroup is from the Italo-Celtic branch of R1b, and from a specific lineage of it that was certainly still in Western Europe 3000 years ago and came to Anatolia sometime later based on the modern and ancient DNA results and detailed SNP- and STR-based calculations. 3000 years ago Western Europe was for sure dominated by Celtic and Italic peoples. My lineage may have arrived in Anatolia with the Celtic (Galatian) migration or with the Roman colonists or maybe via some other recent Western European migration (mercenaries, crusaders, slaves, etc.). Given that all my known paternal ancestors are from central Anatolia, the Celtic migration seems to be the most plausible explanation in my case, but it is not a sure thing yet either, more modern and ancient DNA results can bring more clarity.
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    I agree with everything you write. Concerning the "Kazakhs", I relied on the label - a bit too promptly, I am afraid. My bad.

    My point was simply that the (autosomal) shift towards Celtic zones (whether it be Insular Celts or ancient Gauls) on the PCA is far from spectacular. And also that other ethnic groups may have had a more significant impact on Turkish genes in terms of pull towards the west.

    I am quite ready to believe that, in what was Galatian territory, Y-dna lineages can have survived, and specific autosomal trace legacy might be detected. I simply wanted to underline how comparatively marginal that legacy is. An element of comparison could be the Burgundians in south-eastern France. They had a major "political" impact, and ruled the land for 120 years. Yet they only left restricted pockets where Y-dna R1a peaks at 5%, and zero detectable autosomal trace.
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    As Onur pointed, it would be impossible to know at this point with the current knowledge/technology. And yes, La Tene Celts would be really different compared to modern Irish.

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