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Thread: Origin of the Bulgars

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    Origin of the Bulgars

    Is thre any support for the Bulgars coming from the Pamir/Hindu Kush region? I presume this is some sort of internet myth that stems from a desire to not associate Bulgars with more eastern language families like Altaic and Uralic and is some sort of desire to be associated with Scythians instead of Turks. There doesn't seem to be any significant frequencies of typical South -Central Asian lineages in the SE Balkans such as Z93, R2 or L (the only common lineages between the SE Balkans are G, J and E which all likely have a Neolithic or pre-Neolithic spread).

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    The Bulgars appear to have emerged from the Huns. The Chuvash, descendants of the Volga Bulgars, speak the only surviving Oghur branch of Turkic. However, the Bulgars who spread into what is now Bulgaria were a military elite, who subjugated the Slavs who had already arrived there and submerged the Thracians, who in their turn had replaced earlier farmers. So picture layer upon layer of history, some leaving more evidence than others in the present gene-pool of Bulgaria.

    Predominant today are Slavic Y-DNA signatures R1a-M458 and I2a1b3a (L147), and haplogroups E1b-V13, J2-M241 and R1b1ba2a (L23), perhaps representing the Thracians. Haplogroups C, N and Q, distinctive for central Asian Turkic-speakers, occur in only 1.5% of Bulgarians.

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    You can see the path the R1b Scythians took in this diagram. The R1b Scythians stretched from Pashtuns to Eastern Europe.



    This also explains the R1b and ANE in this area, for example the R1b found in Ossetians, and R1b in Bulgars, which of course is connected to R1b in Iranians.
    Last edited by Silesian; 02-09-2014 at 09:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    You can see the path the R1b Scythians took in this diagram. The R1b Scythians stretched from Pashtuns to Eastern Europe.



    This also explains the R1b and ANE in this area, for example the R1b found in Ossetians, and R1b in Bulgars, which of course is connected to R1b in Iranians.
    Does repeating this lie over and over make it true? I think not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    Does repeating this lie over and over make it true? I think not.
    Well the Ossetians have R1b, so do the Iranians, as well as Pashtuns.Remember the Grugni et al study, not much R1b in the Turkmen region of Iran, more R1a actually.

  8. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Well the Ossetians have R1b, so do the Iranians, as well as Pashtuns.Remember the Grugni et al study, not much R1b in the Turkmen region of Iran, more R1a actually.
    Yea they also have R1a (Iranians and Kurds). The frequency of R1b among Pashtuns is what? A pathetic 1%? That's cool that Turkmen have lots of R1a. They are after all the ones who lived closest to Scythians. Cool story though.

    Why is it that nobody associates R1b with Scythians but you? Is the rest of the world wrong or could it be your idea have zero merit?

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    But thanks for ruining this thread with OT stuff. Why don't you post your theory in another thread and add a poll so we can see if anybody is buying what you keep on repeating over and over?

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    Yea they also have R1a (Iranians and Kurds). The frequency of R1b among Pashtuns is what? A pathetic 1%? That's cool that Turkmen have lots of R1a. They are after all the ones who lived closest to Scythians. Cool story though.

    Why is it that nobody associates R1b with Scythians but you? Is the rest of the world wrong or could it be your idea have zero merit?
    It's about quality, not quantity. Maybe not even 1% of ydna C is found in the area of the last discovery in Spain. R1b L23 is found in Bulgars, Urals, and Pashtuns. These areas have ANE, have a look at this scientific study, pretty neat.
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...re12736-s1.pdf [page 55]

    http://dienekes.blogspot.ca/2013/03/...arachanak.html
    Last edited by Silesian; 02-09-2014 at 10:40 PM.

  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    It's about quality, not quantity. Maybe not even 1% of ydna C is found in the area of the last discovery in Spain. R1b L23 is found in Bulgars, Urals, and Pashtuns. These areas have ANE, have a look at this scientific study, pretty neat.
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...re12736-s1.pdf [page 55]

    http://dienekes.blogspot.ca/2013/03/...arachanak.html
    So a lineage that doesn't represent even 1% of the Pashtun gene pool is responsible for what will likely be a significant amount of ANE even though this ANE can be explained by R1a and R2 whose frequency in Pashtuns is close to 60%. But in your expert opinions R1b groups brought ANE to South Central Asia even though R1a-Z93 groups in the Bronze Age were likely more ANE than any European R1a or any R1b group ever was and is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    So a lineage that doesn't represent even 1% of the Pashtun gene pool is responsible for what will likely be a significant amount of ANE even though this ANE can be explained by R1a and R2 whose frequency in Pashtuns is close to 60%. But in your expert opinions R1b groups brought ANE to South Central Asia even though R1a-Z93 groups in the Bronze Age were likely more ANE than any European R1a or any R1b group ever was and is.
    Yeah, wiki shows R1b-L23 in Iran Kurds and Kazakhstan and Bulgarians, I figure that is the same one with ANE, maybe close to extinct R's like Mal'ta.

    The only population yet recorded with a definite significant proportion of R1b* are the Kurds of southeastern Kazakhstan with 13%.[7] However, more recently, a large study of Y-chromosome variation in Iran, revealed R1b* as high as 4.3% among Persian sub-populations.[18]

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