Pontic Greek R-U152

[eolien]

Eolien, I have read that article that was poorly translated into English from Turkish. I thought it got taken down because it did not have more than one source or something like that? I have heard about the rebels there from primary sources and additionally that the village suffered tremendously from reprisals during the genocide, because of their activities. They were described in that article as "armed at all times" and having a different dialect than Sile Greeks. I believe it, because the next generation was the one that fought in the Greek resistance and were active in the Civil War. It's why, to answer your question Johnny, I am half-Polish. Gebze is not too far away, but I have a feeling that they were from further East in Anatolia originally. This would make even more sense to me if my paternal line is in fact from the Galatians. It's curious to say the least.

there are many articles about that not just one but coming from pontus and settling there does not make sense to me. The second theory i have seen is that they were recent immigrant in Taskopru coming from Pelopones (again due to Orlov). Their different accent and a bit wild nature could be just that. I read in article (http://ozhanozturk.com/2017/12/16/si...listen-sileye/) that the refugees from there settled in Pireus, Evgenia neighbourhood https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%95...A%CE%AF%CE%B1)

[eolien]

Eolien, I have read that article that was poorly translated into English from Turkish. I thought it got taken down because it did not have more than one source or something like that? I have heard about the rebels there from primary sources and additionally that the village suffered tremendously from reprisals during the genocide, because of their activities. They were described in that article as "armed at all times" and having a different dialect than Sile Greeks. I believe it, because the next generation was the one that fought in the Greek resistance and were active in the Civil War. It's why, to answer your question Johnny, I am half-Polish. Gebze is not too far away, but I have a feeling that they were from further East in Anatolia originally. This would make even more sense to me if my paternal line is in fact from the Galatians. It's curious to say the least.

The greeks from Yenikoy were apparently quite active! in 1919-1922 period. At the end some albanians connected to the nationalists together with the locals from Gebze villages attacked the village and you can imagine the rest. But the gang leaders managed to escape. Apparently they were deported in 1915 to Eskisehir and other places and came back to in 1919. I also found this: https://neoxori-xili.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_5925.html. It says there that Yenikoy refugees moved to in NAOUSA IMATHIA.

Edit: I added from that Greek page, the relevant passage on Orlov:
"Τά χωριά αυτά, καθαρώς γεωργικά και Ιδία κτηνοτροφικά, εiχαν κτισθή περί τά τέλη τοΰ δεκάτου ογδόου αίώνος άπό πρόσφυγας τής Κωμοπόλεως Τάς-Κιοπροϋ (Πέτρινη Γέφυρα) τής Βιθυνίας, κοντά στην Νικομήδεια, πού έφυγαν για νά σωθοϋν άπό τούς διωγμούς κατά τό έτος 1770 κατά τήν έπανάστασι τοϋ Όρλώφ."

[Marko47]

It says there that Yenikoy refugees moved to in NAOUSA IMATHIA.

Yessir! One of the only relatives of my grandfather's family that I have ever visited, lived in Naousa. Yenikoy refugees also went to Voreino as well, where my grandfather's family fled. Nicomedia/Eskihecir, now we are talking about Galatian country. This makes more sense you're right. BTW another thing I have heard from a primary source, people who have visited the cemeteries there, say that in 1800 it was considered a Georgian village. Georgian people lived there apparently.

[Ayetooey]

If your paternal line is from the East Thracian region, perhaps your Y dna came with the "Frankokratia".

[Marko47]

Perhaps a possibility.

[Onur Dincer]

I do not see any East Eurasian/Turkic shift in the GEDmatch results of the kits the OP shared. His father is basically like a mainland Greek-eastern Pontic Greek mix and his Giresun side is like an eastern Pontic Greek genetically, all in accordance with their known backgrounds. Nothing unusual there.

As for his Y-DNA, R1b-U152 is not so unusual for the Balkans (his known patrilineal ancestry is from the Balkans), it is clearly found in higher percentage in the Balkans than in Anatolia, which is probably to do with the much higher concentration of Celts in the Balkans than in Anatolia historically, the long existence of Italian colonists in the Balkans from the Roman colonies in ancient times well into the Italian city state colonies in late medieval times, and also the Frankokratia Ayetooey mentioned.

[Onur Dincer]

The G25 results of the father show that his mainland Greek side is steppe-rich, so some recent Thracian ancestry makes sense.

[Marko47]

Onur, thank you for this analysis. I'm not sure if you had read about the history of the village my father's paternal grandparents lived in, but I had a thought recently. The village of Yenikoy was apparently a Georgian village, before the Greeks arrived arrived after the Orlov Revolt. I have a fairly close atdna match for my father whose both parents were from Yenikoy. One of his parent's mtdna result was linked to Georgia and the Caucasus, and this person has a few autosomal matches from the Caucasus as well. Supposedly the greeks that arrived after Orlov were mainland Greeks, Cretans, and a few other places. I'm wondering if my G25 results are showing some ancestry from the Caucasus (maybe Georgian) with people like Darginians, Laz, Mountain Jews in the results? Would that explain the Central_Anatolian_Greek? Does this make sense at all what I'm saying?

[Onur Dincer]

Onur, thank you for this analysis. I'm not sure if you had read about the history of the village my father's paternal grandparents lived in, but I had a thought recently. The village of Yenikoy was apparently a Georgian village, before the Greeks arrived arrived after the Orlov Revolt. I have a fairly close atdna match for my father whose both parents were from Yenikoy. One of his parent's mtdna result was linked to Georgia and the Caucasus, and this person has a few autosomal matches from the Caucasus as well. Supposedly the greeks that arrived after Orlov were mainland Greeks, Cretans, and a few other places. I'm wondering if my G25 results are showing some ancestry from the Caucasus (maybe Georgian) with people like Darginians, Laz, Mountain Jews in the results? Would that explain the Central_Anatolian_Greek? Does this make sense at all what I'm saying?

You are welcome Marko. If you mean that your father is 1/4 Georgian, 1/4 mainland Greek and 1/2 eastern Pontic Greek, that is not what I am observing in your father's genetic results. Like I said, your father's results seem compatible with someone with half mainland and half eastern Pontic Greek ancestry, your Y-DNA also points to Europe rather than the Caucasus. Maybe your father's Greek match from Yenikoy has some Georgian mix but matches your father through his Greek side, have you considered that possibility? The distances of the Georgian matches to that match are also important, if they are distant, then there is even more room for speculation.

[Marko47]

(his known patrilineal ancestry is from the Balkans)

This is the part that is up for debate. There is simply a story in the family that my great grandfather was a shepherd who came to Yenikoy as an adult from Eastern Thrace. Whether this is true or where exactly these people originated, is completely unknown. But a person who has more knowledge within their family of Yenikoy Sile Greeks, said to me that it was common for people in Yenikoy to go to Eastern Thrace during a certain period of time. (I would think especially shepherd or Vlach type people, who could be nomadic.) So there is also the possibility that they originated in Yenikoy to begin with and got there from the Greek mainland or Crete. I know that especially the Northern Balkans had a lot of Celtic tribes, especially around the Danube. Thrace too. It's tough to say. But I'm curious with you also being in R-U152 from Nigde, whether you think you have this from the Romans or Galatians, or some other source? (If I'm not mistaken I think it's 0.6% in Turkey as opposed to 4% in Greece.)