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Thread: Medieval Albanian Placenames/Settlements in Kosovo & Serbia 13-15th Century

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    Albania Kosovo

    Medieval Albanian Placenames/Settlements in Kosovo & Serbia 13-15th Century

    As recorded in Slavic & Ottoman tax, land, etc, registries during the 13th-15th Centuries. Neatly falsifies the sci-fi propaganda that Albanians supposedly are late migrants into Kosovo during the ottoman empire.

    This is priceless information for anybody with Ev13, J2b2-l283, balkan origins, etc.

    Many myths were constructed by propaganda divisions of the 19th and 20th century colonization projects that Serbia had. If we wish to understand our past truthfully we need to annihilate myths like those.

    Milan Sufflay, a croatian jewish scientist, was murdered by Serbian special agents for researching Albanian history, and his codex albanicus was stolen, and still has not been released ever by the Serbian state. This is a sign that we will not be getting anything of the truth about balkan history from a state like Serbia, so academic work like the research below is paramount if we're to get anywhere.

    There is yet to be an in depth scientific study on Albanian orthodoxy in Kosovo, Serbia, Bulgaria, etc. Note the monasteries registered like for example "Sveti Arbanash".

    The Map:

     



    Direct link to the map: https://i.imgur.com/S8aVnQ0.jpg

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    Something further interesting is the visible assimilation of Albanians into the serbian ethnos. In Chrysobulls and Ottoman registries of names of households, we observe the sons with slavic names like "Bogoslav" while the father has a typical albanian name like "Arbanas", etc.

    See below:

    "Process of Slavicization of the traditional Albanian onomastic, was to a
    great extent given Slav characteristics, first during Bulgarian medieval and
    then Serb rule, especially during the rule of Serbian kings, Milutin, Dushan,
    and Urosh. For this reason, many Slav scholars have considered Albanians
    who had typical Slavic names as Slav-Orthodox from ethnic aspect, but in
    essence in the ethnic-language aspect, they were Orthodox Albanians and
    not of a Slav origin.

    As it is already stated in the very beginning of the preface, to
    approxima- tely determine ethnic origin of the head of the families who were
    registered in the Ottoman registries (but not the ethnic structure with
    percentage), only for the head of the families with Albanian origin who had
    traditional and characteristic Albanian names, in symbiosis with Slavic and
    Christian names, the same time who had diferently names with Albanian
    lingvistc forms ending with vowels- i and - a, we have used this methodology:

    -According to the Slav and Christian names of the head of the family
    which were in symbioses or of a family origin (related) to Albanian patronims, like: Stepan, son of Bardo-s (Bardhi), Jovan, son of Ulku-t (Ujku),
    Boja, son of Ulkash, Stojani, son of Dashi, Bozhidar, son of Guri, Radislav,
    son of Luli, Milosh son of Luli-, Bogdan, son of Malja-s, Dobrashin son of
    Zguri, Nikolla, son of Rrapi, Andre, son of Zognos-, etc.

    - According to the names of the head of the families who had typical
    Slav names, but surnames of the tribe, fraternities and flood related: Milosh,
    son of Berisha, Radoslav, son of Berisha, Bozhidar, brother of, Rodonja,
    son of Berisha, Ivan, son of Mazrek, Radica, his son, Radislav, son of Mazrek, Ivan, son of Muzaka, Radosavi, son of Muzaka, Jovan, son of Krasniē,
    Jovan son of Lika-s, Nikola, son of Shaliē, Radislav , son of Progon, etc.

    - According to the Slav and Christian name of the head of the families
    who were blood related with older traditional and characteristic Albanian
    names: Branko, son of Gjon, Radica, son of Gjon, Radosav, son of Gjon,
    Nikola, son of Radiē, Petri, son of Gjon, Vuk, son of Gjonash, Dabzhiv, son
    of Gjin, Andrej, son of Radoslav, son of Andreja-s (Leshit), Bogdan, son of
    Gjin, Jova, son of Gjinoviq, Dabzhiv, son of Doēi, Mihal, son of Leka, Radko, son of Tanush, Radoslav, son of Prnd-i, Gjurgji, son of Tanush, Stepan
    son of Tolja, Bozhidar son of Jaka, etc.

    - According to the calendric names, Christian in Albanian forms, or the
    ones that had indefinite articles or suffixes- i and -a, also ush and esh of the
    Albanian language, without taking into consideration origin of the name or
    the surname: Peter Mati, Dimiter Petri, Andreja Petri, Aleksi, Dimitri Spani,
    Niko Petri, Pavel Aleksi, Dimitri Nikolla: Andreja, Biba, Bic, Bili, Bilja, Bulesh,
    Boja, Bojk-Bojki, Bat-Batush, But-Butko, Bulesh, Daba, Dobri, Daka, Deda,
    Deja, Dida, Dobra, Doda, Doka, Draga, Dragush,Dosa, Duka, Gaci, Gega,
    Daka, Geci, Gika, Gjika, Guri, Guro, Gjurgji, Gjorgji, Gjuresh, Gjurk, Gjergji
    Jako, Jaka Jan, Jano, Jon, Kata, Kolja-Nikola, Lazor- Lazer, Leka, Lika, Lekash, Leshi, Leshan, Leshjan, Lul, Lulash Mal-Malja, Mil,-Mili, Mihal, Milush
    Mana, Manuel, Mara, Marin, Martin-Marash, Mati,Mata, Mateja, Mirash,
    Mirush Niko, Nika, , Nikashin, Nua, Ndua, Noka, Nokaē, Prenk-Prend,Pepa,
    Petra, Pava, Pal, Pulja, Pavel, Peci-Peca, Puta, Puka, Radi, Rad, Rada,
    Rajk, Rajki, Stajk-Stajki ,Stepa,Steja, Tan,Tom-Toma, Tun-Tuna, TushaTushko,Vaso, Vasa, Vladi, Vllashi, Voka,Vuka, etc.

    -According to the etnonim – popular names, like: Bogdan, son of
    Arbanas, Jovan, son of Arbanas, Bogoslav, son of Arbanash, Milosh, son of
    Arbanas, Stanisha, son of Aarbanash, Cvetko, son of Arbanas, Novak, son
    of Arnaut, Milosh, son of Arnaut, Novak son of Arnaut, Jorgi-Jorgji, son of
    Arvaniti, Hristo son of Arvaniti, etc. - According the names of neighborhood
    and settlements: Radoslav Bardoniē, Vukashin, son of Makromal, Vuk, son
    of Makromal, Nenada, son of Makromal, Dragoslav and Dragosh, sons of
    Bogoje, their grandfather Kurikuē,(Gurikuq), Hlapi, son of Guribardiē, (Gurbardhi). Marko,son of Guri-Ziē (Gurizi)

    Source: "Regjistrimi i vendbanimeve dhe i popullsisė albane tė Kosovės : (sipas defterėve osmanė tė shekullit XV)"

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    This assimilation process visible in records explains why south serbs have more typical Albanian haplogroups like ev13 and j2b2 and less I2a-slav.

    We observe a similar process on the sanxhak bosnians, who are muslim albanians that assimilated into bosnian muslims. They also have entirely albanian haplos unlike bosnians proper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This assimilation process visible in records explains why south serbs have more typical Albanian haplogroups like ev13 and j2b2 and less I2a-slav.
    Here's a quick comparison of E-V13, R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 among Albanians and Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija. Serbian sample is from ongoing testing of Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija, Albanian sample is taken from your project gjenetika.com/statistikat.

    ksm.PNG

    As you can see, even though E-V13 percentage among Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija is indeed much above Serbian average (by some ~50%), and is almost comparable to percentage among Albanians, R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 are not even close, in fact they are barely above Serbian average. It's funny how one simple table made your "assimilation process" fantasy null and void. Or are you saying Serbs were assimilating almost exclusively E-V13 Albanians, and rarely to almost never R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 Albanians? Such disproportion is clear indicator E-V13 is not "typical Albanian haplogroup" as you said, it is Paleo-Balkan haplogroup which is clearly older on the territory of Kosovo and Metohija than "typical Albanian haplogroups" R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283. E-V13 probably was a major haplogroup among ancient Dardanians, which were later romanized and gradually became known as Vlachs during Late Antiquity and Early Medieval period. Those are the same Vlachs known from medieval Serbian sources, which were assimilated during medieval times by Serbs, and later by Albanians. On the other hand, great mayority of R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 Albanians are relatively late (medieval & modern) newcomers to Kosovo and Metohija from North Albania, and most of them know even today when and from which North Albanian tribe/fis they came.

    Also, "Slavic" I2-Y3120 among Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija is just 2% below Serbian average (32%:34%), and R1a is 2,5% below (12,5%:15%).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    Here's a quick comparison of E-V13, R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 among Albanians and Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija. Serbian sample is from ongoing testing of Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija, Albanian sample is taken from your project gjenetika.com/statistikat.

    ksm.PNG

    As you can see, even though E-V13 percentage among Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija is indeed much above Serbian average (by some ~50%), and is almost comparable to percentage among Albanians, R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 are not even close, in fact they are barely above Serbian average. It's funny how one simple table made your "assimilation process" fantasy null and void. Or are you saying Serbs were assimilating almost exclusively E-V13 Albanians, and rarely to almost never R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 Albanians? Such disproportion is clear indicator E-V13 is not "typical Albanian haplogroup" as you said, it is Paleo-Balkan haplogroup which is clearly older on the territory of Kosovo and Metohija than "typical Albanian haplogroups" R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283. E-V13 probably was a major haplogroup among ancient Dardanians, which were later romanized and gradually became known as Vlachs during Late Antiquity and Early Medieval period. Those are the same Vlachs known from medieval Serbian sources, which were assimilated during medieval times by Serbs, and later by Albanians. On the other hand, great mayority of R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 Albanians are relatively late (medieval & modern) newcomers to Kosovo and Metohija from North Albania, and most of them know even today when and from which North Albanian tribe/fis they came.

    Also, "Slavic" I2-Y3120 among Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija is just 2% below Serbian average (32%:34%), and R1a is 2,5% below (12,5%:15%).
    Read the map. You have Sveti Arbanash monastery registered north-east of the Republic of Kosovo's territory today (doesnt exist anymore). You have "berishanė" all the way near Nish. You have another "berisha" toponym on the border with Kurshumliya. Meaning there was tribal movements way before ottomans to get that north. (berisha is oldest thus far recorded Alb clan).

    Car dushan mentions Berisha's field in Kosovo:



    And I didn't claim all serbs are alb-assimilants if thats what you are insinuating. I said south serbs have higher Albanian related y-dna haplos, which is true and you know that. There were more Albanians than vlachs in KS, so you are almost there with your analysis.
    Last edited by Johane Derite; 07-28-2019 at 08:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post

    ksm.PNG

    As you can see, even though E-V13 percentage among Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija is indeed much above Serbian average (by some ~50%), and is almost comparable to percentage among Albanians, R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 are not even close, in fact they are barely above Serbian average. It's funny how one simple table made your "assimilation process" fantasy null and void. Or are you saying Serbs were assimilating almost exclusively E-V13 Albanians, and rarely to almost never R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 Albanians? Such disproportion is clear indicator E-V13 is not "typical Albanian haplogroup" as you said, it is Paleo-Balkan haplogroup which is clearly older on the territory of Kosovo and Metohija than "typical Albanian haplogroups" R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283. E-V13 probably was a major haplogroup among ancient Dardanians, which were later romanized and gradually became known as Vlachs during Late Antiquity and Early Medieval period. Those are the same Vlachs known from medieval Serbian sources, which were assimilated during medieval times by Serbs, and later by Albanians. On the other hand, great mayority of R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 Albanians are relatively late (medieval & modern) newcomers to Kosovo and Metohija from North Albania, and most of them know even today when and from which North Albanian tribe/fis they came.
    .
    Can you break down V13 into subclades?

    I am looking at the Serbian project (Kosova & Metohija) and I don’t see 380 samples. From what I am seeing Monte clusters seem to dominate (Bjelopavlici Y133830, Vasojevici Y37092, Rajovici BY14160 etc.). There is also one Z16988, some L241 and few unclassified samples.
    Last edited by Keqa; 07-28-2019 at 09:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keqa View Post
    Can you break down V13 into subclades?

    I am looking at the Serbian project (Kosova & Metohija) and I don’t see 380 samples. From what I am seeing Monte clusters seem to dominate (Bjelopavlici Y133830, Vasojevici Y37092, Rajovici BY14160 etc.). There is also one Z16988, some L241 and few unclassified samples.
    As I said, these 380 results are from an ongoing testing, so they are not public yet, the paper should be out by the end of the year. The results from Kosovo and Metohija that can be seen in Serbian DNA Project aren't included in the statistics posted above. As SNP testing isn't completed, it's not easy to break all results into deeper subclades based on 23 STRs, even Nevgen isn't that precise with shorter haplotypes. But what I can say based on some specific STR values is that Bjelopavlići cluster Z16988>Y133830 (DYS391=11) is by far the most numerous (almost 1/4 of all V13), there is also several Vasojevići BY14151 haplotypes, but no Kuči and Rajovići. Also, several BY5423 (DYS19=14), Z38456 (DYS458=20), L241 (DYS643=13/14), and probably several FGC11450. Although overall STR variance seems to be high, number of samples doesn't have distinctive STR values, so it's best to wait for SNP confirmations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    As I said, these 380 results are from an ongoing testing, so they are not public yet, the paper should be out by the end of the year. The results from Kosovo and Metohija that can be seen in Serbian DNA Project aren't included in the statistics posted above. As SNP testing isn't completed, it's not easy to break all results into deeper subclades based on 23 STRs, even Nevgen isn't that precise with shorter haplotypes. But what I can say based on some specific STR values is that Bjelopavlići cluster Z16988>Y133830 (DYS391=11) is by far the most numerous (almost 1/4 of all V13), there is also several Vasojevići BY14151 haplotypes, but no Kuči and Rajovići. Also, several BY5423 (DYS19=14), Z38456 (DYS458=20), L241 (DYS643=13/14), and probably several FGC11450. Although overall STR variance seems to be high, number of samples doesn't have distinctive STR values, so it's best to wait for SNP confirmations.
    Ok, I will need to see those results though in order to take them seriously. But anywho, with what you have provided us here I don’t see how your statement regarding Vlahs from Kosova could stand.

    - Bjelopavlici (or Palbardhi in Alb) - Y133830 have expanded out of Montenegro but they trace their origin to North Albania.

    - Vasojevici - Y37092 same thing, expanded out of Montenegro.

    - Z38456 with 458=20 in other words BY4461 is a major Albanian cluster.

    - L241 with DYS643=14 are probably PH2180+. Another major Albanian cluster. DYS643=13 could be under A7065 or perhaps are something else. Hard to say without looking all of their markers.

    - FGC11450 samples I have noticed (at least the ones I have seen) are really close to some of our members under Y146086. Another major cluster of ours.

    Only BY5423 is interesting here with somewhat odd distribution (Montenegro, Bosnia, Macedonia) that hasn’t been encountered among us yet.
    Last edited by Keqa; 07-30-2019 at 03:38 AM.

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    We also find Albanian names in Stefan Nemanjic's 1220 charter for the founding of the Zica monastery. This means we should expect assimilated Albanian y-lineages in Serbian populations from their Orthodox symbiosis with Serbs.

    Zica is quite a bit further north than Kosovo.

    Of 208 names, 154 are Serbian, 54 are Albanian and Vlach.







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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    R1b-BY611 and J2b2-L283 are not even close, in fact they are barely above Serbian average
    What would the Serbian average be for R-BY611 if you exclude Brda, Kosovo, the Leskovac area and Sandzak?
    Last edited by Ownstyler; 09-12-2019 at 02:20 AM.

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