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Thread: Ancient DNA shows domestic horses in southern Caucasus, Anatolia during Bronze Age

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    Ancient DNA shows domestic horses in southern Caucasus, Anatolia during Bronze Age

    Ancient DNA shows domestic horses were introduced in the southern Caucasus and Anatolia during the Bronze Age

    Silvia Guimaraes1, Benjamin S. Arbuckle, Joris Peters, Sarah E. Adcock, Hijlke Buitenhuis, Hannah Chazin, Ninna Manaseryan, Hans-Peter Uerpmann, View Thierry Grange, and Eva-Maria Geigl

    Abstract
    Despite the important roles that horses have played in human history, particularly in the spread of languages and cultures, and correspondingly intensive research on this topic, the origin of domestic horses remains elusive. Several domestication centers have been hypothesized, but most of these have been invalidated through recent paleogenetic studies. Anatolia is a region with an extended history of horse exploitation that has been considered a candidate for the origins of domestic horses but has never been subject to detailed investigation. Our paleogenetic study of pre- and protohistoric horses in Anatolia and the Caucasus, based on a diachronic sample from the early Neolithic to the Iron Age (~8000 to ~1000 BCE) that encompasses the presumed transition from wild to domestic horses (4000 to 3000 BCE), shows the rapid and large-scale introduction of domestic horses at the end of the third millennium BCE. Thus, our results argue strongly against autochthonous independent domestication of horses in Anatolia.
    YFull: YF14620 (Dante Labs 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    Ancient DNA shows domestic horses were introduced in the southern Caucasus and Anatolia during the Bronze Age

    Thus, our results argue strongly against autochthonous independent domestication of horses in Anatolia.
    How is this possible, if the centre of domestication - in general terms - were located in the Fertile Crescent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    How is this possible, if the centre of domestication - in general terms - were located in the Fertile Crescent?
    Because the fertile crescent is not where people first started domesticating horses, that happened on the Eurasian steppe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    How is this possible, if the centre of domestication - in general terms - were located in the Fertile Crescent?
    https://indo-european.eu/2020/09/ori...till-at-large/

    Origin of DOM2 closing in on the Pontic-Caspian steppes

    and later their offshoot Yamnaya the ultimate cause of the expansion of modern domesticated horse breeds in West and East Eurasia.
    Yamnaya Orthodox-3000+/- years of barrow burial culture; containing either, red ochre,axe/dagger, horse remains.
    ydna and or mtdna under study z2109/U5a1
    R1b-Z2103+>R1b-Z2110+ -Yamnaya-Afanasievo -33002600 BC, Poltavka- Catacomb-28002200 BC, Csepel Island Hungary, Vucedol, Eastern Bell Beakers- Poland -Sambrozec 28001800 BCE, Karagash-Khazakhstan 3018-2887 BC-Iran Hajji_Firuz I2327 , Rise 397 Kapan LBA, Armenia , Pokrovka Sarmatians 200 BCE. R1b-Z2109 Sintashta

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    https://indo-european.eu/2020/09/ori...till-at-large/

    Origin of DOM2 closing in on the Pontic-Caspian steppes
    Quiles is to be taken with care, he could twist something again and basically don't read it anymore and I would advise you to do that too, but it's your decision!
    Alain Dad
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    Moldovan: 0.2%
    Italian_Northeast: 0.2%
    Other: 0.1%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    https://indo-european.eu/2020/09/ori...till-at-large/

    Origin of DOM2 closing in on the Pontic-Caspian steppes
    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    Quiles is to be taken with care, he could twist something again and basically don't read it anymore and I would advise you to do that too, but it's your decision!
    Quiles is an idiot. But that's never bothered Silesian and probably never will.

    DOM2 is now irrelevant, because it has significant "Iberian" admixture. This sums up the situation.

    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/...y-of-long.html


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    I don't know why Quiles is doing it, I think he is doing it on purpose, twisting the scientific work to get his point across, and adorning it with beautiful pictures. Unfortunately, some of them let themselves be drawn into its vortex and thus absorb false unnecessary knowledge. To put it simply: "It breaks my head", unfortunately he also finds popularity for his strange articles, but everyone has to know for himself what is right or wrong or makes the best comparison to serious scientific articles and his.
    Alain Dad
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    Moldovan: 0.2%
    Italian_Northeast: 0.2%
    Other: 0.1%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    Quiles is to be taken with care, he could twist something again and basically don't read it anymore and I would advise you to do that too, but it's your decision!
    Kernosovsky idol
    Yamnaya( 3300–2600 BC)/Poltavka( 2700 BCE – 2100 BCE)-Pastoralist culture also carved horses in stone; and had horse burials!

    face: deep-set eyes, nose, chin; depicts a mustache with the ends down.
    weapons: bow and arrow, mace ;
    tools: axes, a hoe , a spoon for pouring metal, a casting mold.
    animals - a bull, two horses, turtles.



    Last edited by Silesian; 09-19-2020 at 08:30 PM.
    Yamnaya Orthodox-3000+/- years of barrow burial culture; containing either, red ochre,axe/dagger, horse remains.
    ydna and or mtdna under study z2109/U5a1
    R1b-Z2103+>R1b-Z2110+ -Yamnaya-Afanasievo -33002600 BC, Poltavka- Catacomb-28002200 BC, Csepel Island Hungary, Vucedol, Eastern Bell Beakers- Poland -Sambrozec 28001800 BCE, Karagash-Khazakhstan 3018-2887 BC-Iran Hajji_Firuz I2327 , Rise 397 Kapan LBA, Armenia , Pokrovka Sarmatians 200 BCE. R1b-Z2109 Sintashta

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    I don't agree with Carlos on almost everything, but I do think it is likely that horses were domesticated quite early, not much after 4000 bc, and that horse riding did sort of develop during that period. But it would've been for herd management mainly, and transportation as a second method. I always have the gut feeling that archaeology really only gives us snippets in the past, and that we know 10-20% max of what really went out there. The botai site shows how hunter gatherers domesticated horses and jumped on their backs in no time.

    Bell Beakers and Corded Ware would have significantly less horses, by virtue of not living in horse country. But the horse had to be there as we already have osteological indications of horse riding amongst the bell beakers.

    Later in time developments in gear occured that made it easier to fight from horseback, as well as a general increase in horses due to trade and experience in breeding, and after 1500 bc we slowly see riding taking on, but really so in the 1st millenium b.c.

    That's what I think is the likeliest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperAxe View Post
    I don't agree with Carlos on almost everything, but I do think it is likely that horses were domesticated quite early, not much after 4000 bc, and that horse riding did sort of develop during that period. But it would've been for herd management mainly, and transportation as a second method. I always have the gut feeling that archaeology really only gives us snippets in the past, and that we know 10-20% max of what really went out there. The botai site shows how hunter gatherers domesticated horses and jumped on their backs in no time.

    Bell Beakers and Corded Ware would have significantly less horses, by virtue of not living in horse country. But the horse had to be there as we already have osteological indications of horse riding amongst the bell beakers.

    Later in time developments in gear occured that made it easier to fight from horseback, as well as a general increase in horses due to trade and experience in breeding, and after 1500 bc we slowly see riding taking on, but really so in the 1st millenium b.c.

    That's what I think is the likeliest.
    The point made was that Carlos was an idiot, which is indisputable, and also that DOM2 horses with Iberian admixture were replaced by Sintashta horses.

    All Indo-European speaking equestrian cultures had Sintashta horses not DOM2 horses.

    No one knows yet when the modern domestic Sintashta clade was domesticated or where, and when people started riding. But the current evidence suggests that riding in war became widespread in the Andronovo culture.

    https://phys.org/news/2020-07-ancien...ronze-age.html

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