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Thread: DF27 aDNA Discussion Thread

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    Sometimes they are picked up, and put back down. Because derived calls for those mutations could be false positives, caused by deamination. And if they could be, the default assumption (per their sometimes-stated criteria, a pre-existing condition) is that they are false positives. No-call is less likely to get you denied tenure than wrong-call. But this set of blinders helps to make the back story for several important haplogroups, including "brothers" DF27 and U152, a slow plot to develop. Especially in peer-reviewed academic literature, which is pretty slow at the best of times.
    It's not that. Most ancient DNA samples are purposely not whole genome tested, but rather are targeted around certain areas to get the most DNA comparison against other samples for autosomal PCRs etc. The positions where DF27 and U152 are located are not called. Some of the earlier studies did call those areas, but that is not longer the case with the newer ones.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    VK329 1.195 R-M269>P312/S116>Z40481>ZZ11>DF27/S250>Z195/S355>Z272>S450>Z295/S1217>S25783>CTS4065>S16864
    Indeed this one is interesting. But if the samples are 1300BC, that's about the age of CTS4065 itself. In this case, since there cannot be possibly many CTS4065 individuals living at that time, what do you make of this finding ? where there actually many CTS4065 living in 1300BC ?

    Also since modern CTS4065 presence is widespread from Spain to Denmark, what is your preferred hypothesis: that CTS4065 was already dispersed BEFORE the battle, or that the dispersion occurred AFTER the battle, being even possibly triggered by the battle ?

    PS: sorry i am confused with the other paper on the Bronze age battle. This thread is about the Vikings, obviously not 1300BC.
    Last edited by Ric; 09-25-2020 at 01:58 PM.

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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ric View Post
    Indeed this one is interesting. But if the samples are 1300BC, that's about the age of CTS4065 itself. In this case, since there cannot be possibly many CTS4065 individuals living at that time, what do you make of this finding ? where there actually many CTS4065 living in 1300BC ?

    Also since modern CTS4065 presence is widespread from Spain to Denmark, what is your preferred hypothesis: that CTS4065 was already dispersed BEFORE the battle, or that the dispersion occurred AFTER the battle, being even possibly triggered by the battle ?

    PS: sorry i am confused with the other paper on the Bronze age battle. This thread is about the Vikings, obviously not 1300BC.
    This is the site information for VK329:

    Sample: VK329 / Denmark_Ribe 8
    Location: Ribe, Jutland, Denmark
    Age: Viking 9-11th centuries CE
    Y-DNA: R-S18894
    mtDNA: H3-T152C

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     Ric (09-25-2020)

  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    This is the site information for VK329:

    Sample: VK329 / Denmark_Ribe 8
    Location: Ribe, Jutland, Denmark
    Age: Viking 9-11th centuries CE
    Y-DNA: R-S18894
    mtDNA: H3-T152C
    Thanks Webb. 9-11th century, it's not too surprising to find a CTS4065 guy, even as a Viking.

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  8. #15
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    I am especially interested in the samples with the highest coverage since more SNPs can be found that way and in seeing if it affects anything at YFull. I haven't had time to lookup more information on these specimens to see if there is isotope analysis that indicates region of residence prior to death.

    I am also interested in VK329 since it has a 14C Cal. Date. I wonder if any private mutations were found for this specimen but with a coverage of only 1.195 I guess there weren't many if any.


    Sample Coverage YFull v8.08.00 link YFull formed Country MajorDivision MinorDivision Age Finer_age 14C Cal. Date (1 sigma) SampleType
    VK166 4.498 https://bit.ly/3mTtPSp 1950 ybp UK Oxford, England St_Johnís_College_Oxford Viking 880-1000 CE Petrous
    VK87 3.021 https://bit.ly/3j6ZfCG 4500 ybp Denmark Jutland Hesselbjerg Viking 850-900 CE Tooth
    VK403 1.49 https://bit.ly/36aI2EA 3500 ybp Sweden Skara Varnhem Viking 10-12th centuries CE Petrous
    VK329 1.195 https://bit.ly/3mSXlb2 3100 ybp Denmark Jutland Ribe Viking 9-11th centuries CE 711-864 CE Petrous
    VK147 0.822 UK Oxford, England St_Johnís_College_Oxford Viking 880-1000 CE Petrous
    VK365 0.764 https://bit.ly/3i2tCZL 2700 ybp Denmark Langeland BogÝvej Viking 10th century CE Tooth

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  10. #16
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    YFull has already made a change to VK166. I'll post a new table shortly.

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  12. #17
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    New table with updates

    Sample Coverage YFull v8.08.00 link YFull formed Country MajorDivision MinorDivision Age Finer_age 14C Cal. Date (1 sigma) SampleType
    VK166 4.498 https://bit.ly/3353vNp 2800 ybp UK Oxford, England St_Johnís_College_Oxford Viking 880-1000 CE Petrous
    VK87 3.021 https://bit.ly/3j6ZfCG 4500 ybp Denmark Jutland Hesselbjerg Viking 850-900 CE Tooth
    VK403 1.49 https://bit.ly/36aI2EA 3500 ybp Sweden Skara Varnhem Viking 10-12th centuries CE Petrous
    VK329 1.195 https://bit.ly/3mSXlb2 3100 ybp Denmark Jutland Ribe Viking 9-11th centuries CE 711-864 CE Petrous
    VK261 1.049 https://bit.ly/2EBvvPf 4500 ybp UK Dorset, England Ridgeway_Hill_Mass_Grave_Dorset Viking 10-11th centuries CE 970-1025 CE Petrous
    VK147 0.822 UK Oxford, England St_Johnís_College_Oxford Viking 880-1000 CE Petrous
    VK365 0.764 Denmark Langeland BogÝvej Viking 10th century CE Tooth
    Last edited by ArmandoR1b; 09-26-2020 at 08:57 PM. Reason: addition of VK261

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  14. #18
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    Funny, i'm quite close to VK329 (0.0164775 unsc.) and VK403 (0.02035927 unsc.) both Z195+ with me ZZ12+ (so Z195-);
    VK365 ZZ12+ came after with 0.02430411 unsc.
    Pangea - Pannotia - Rodinia - Columbia - Kernoland - Ur - Vaalbara - ??

    GaÔa's Haplogroup : G2VR2a1

  15. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalluin View Post
    Funny, i'm quite close to VK329 (0.0164775 unsc.) and VK403 (0.02035927 unsc.) both Z195+ with me ZZ12+ (so Z195-);
    VK365 ZZ12+ came after with 0.02430411 unsc.
    Y-DNA and autosomal DNA are two different animals. There is a correlation where if you have a certain type of autosomal DNA you will have ancestors with the most common Y-DNA subclades that are found in that autosomal DNA category but a specific Y-DNA subclade for a single person doesn't mean they will have the same Y-DNA subclade as others with the same autosomal DNA.

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  17. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    Something else interesting is sample:

    VK147 0.822 R-Y75899 R-M269>P312/S116>Z40481>ZZ11>DF27/S250>Z195/S355>Z272>BY907>FGC14113

    Alex lists the final for this one as R-Y75899, which is the DF17 Ireland/Scotland cluster, which includes two members here at Anthrogenica.
    I think I was incorrect. FTDNA has this snp on their tree with a Canadian and German but doing a little more digging, I believe this sample clusters somewhere with the Colombian and Scot under R-PH92.

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