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Thread: Curiousity on my origins. (Albanian/Malesor/Kelmendi)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post

    What we can say is that BY62310 grew faster and came to dominate the fis.
    The number of results that we have, if we were to write to paper about them, don't allow for any claim. They're good enough approximations, however, for a hypothesis to emerge which can be further tested in order to be verified. The number of results that we have - all point out to Kelmendi as BY62310. The number of families and brotherhoods that these results represent all show that Kelmendi developed from this particular common lineage.

    The fact that there are few random outliers - in terms of lineages - which don't fall under this cluster, doesn't allow room for a hypothesis about "BY62310 grew faster and came to dominate the fis". Boga wasn't even part of Kelmendi in its early stages and if you were to ask around in Boga if it's part of Kelmendi - allow me to say that not all of the answers will be a "yes". If you want to look for fis links of these V13>L241 look to the Kiri and other locations.

    Results from Peja or anywhere else in Kosovo that differ from most of the results basically show that these few families are not part of Kelmendi. There are such outliers in Kosovo for every fis. They just confirm that quite a few local Kosovo families became part of a particular fis (farefisni is a better term). To admit as much only helps us to better investigate Kosovo's demographic development in a proper way and shed light to the fis that composed it instead of lumping different fis together.
    Last edited by Maleschreiber; 09-24-2020 at 08:08 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleschreiber View Post
    The number of results that we have, if we were to write to paper about them, don't allow for any claim. They're good enough approximations, however, for a hypothesis to emerge which can be further tested in order to be verified. The number of results that we have - all point out to Kelmendi as BY62310. The number of families and brotherhoods that these results represent all show that Kelmendi developed from this particular common lineage.

    The fact that there are few random outliers - in terms of lineages - which don't fall under this cluster, doesn't allow room for a hypothesis about "BY62310 grew faster and came to dominate the fis". Boga wasn't even part of Kelmendi in its early stages and if you were to ask around in Boga if it's part of Kelmendi - allow me to say that not all of the answers will be a "yes". If you want to look for fis links of these V13>L241 look to the Kiri and other locations.

    Results from Peja or anywhere else in Kosovo that differ from most of the results basically show that these few families are not part of Kelmendi. There are such outliers in Kosovo for every fis. They just confirm that quite a few local Kosovo families became part of a particular fis (farefisni is a better term). To admit as much only helps us to better investigate Kosovo's demographic development in a proper way and shed light to the fis that composed it instead of lumping different fis together.
    Not just few outliers but solid vellazeri that can be found anywhere Kelmendi migrated - especially in Vuthaj, Rozhaje and Rugove; three large Kelmendi settlements. In Vuthaj for example you can find all three groups BY62310, Y23094 («elaj) and Z2705 (Qosja). Same thing in Rugove. I agree that Kosove is a mess to some extent but Kelmendi of Rugove are without any doubt just an extension of Kelmendi from Malesi. So, saying that these other lineages are not proper or true Kelmend, when we don't even know if such a person ever existed, seems odd to me. They could have acquired the fis name in some other fashion, like from a toponym or the saint for all we know.


    Anyway, that BY62310 expanded rapidly is a fact, their tmcra is only like 450ybp. Muriqi from Klanac and few other villages from Sanxhak for example that went there directly from Malesi and the ones from Rugove appear to be older. They share a tmrca of approximately 700ybp with Muriqi from Rugove - who are without a doubt with origin from Kelmend (Vukel more specifically) - under R1b-Z2705>Y63957.


    True, Boga as a settlement was part of Shkreli. Kelmendi moved in there as they expanded and eventually took it from them. So the L241 fella from Boge most likely is closely related to the Shkreli fella from Ducaj and few Shkreli samples from Sanxhak that are PH2180+. They could also be related to Kiri, who knows. They have only tested with 23andme. Kiri however don't appear to be that close to the Shkreli samples.
    Last edited by broder; 09-25-2020 at 02:22 AM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Not just few outliers but solid vellazeri that can be found anywhere Kelmendi migrated - especially in Vuthaj, Rozhaje and Rugove; three large Kelmendi settlements. In Vuthaj for example you can find all three groups BY62310, Y23094 («elaj) and Z2705 (Qosja). Same thing in Rugove. I agree that Kosove is a mess to some extent but Kelmendi of Rugove are without any doubt just an extension of Kelmendi from Malesi. So, saying that these other lineages are not proper or true Kelmend, when we don't even know if such a person ever existed, seems odd to me. They could have acquired the fis name in some other fashion, like from a toponym or the saint for all we know.
    I think that the toponym existed independently of a person named Kelmend - it is a name that occurs among all Albanians in the middle Ages. Kelmend, however, was a historical figure. His name and the names of his sons appear in the defter of Shkodra. So, there is a lineage of Kelmend. And there are lineages that are not his descendants but became an integral part of what is known as the Kelmendi fis. The Muriqi lineage may be one of them, just like the Goljemadhi.

    The Qosja brotherhood comes from Nrel Bala...who is linked to Muriqi. An interesting fact is that the Rexhepagaj/Rexhepagici of Plava who are Gruemiri belong to the wider lineage. To differentiate in terms of patrilineal lineages is not a discussion about who is "true Kelmendi" and who isn't - both are because kinship as a form of social formation is not an exclusively patrilineal process. The value of the discussion has to do with learning more about older fis/"substrata" which contributed to Kelmendi.

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