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Thread: Curiousity on my origins. (Albanian/Malesor/Kelmendi)

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    Lightbulb Curiousity on my origins. (Albanian/Malesor/Kelmendi)

    Hey everyone, newbie forum user here (just signed up today) I would like to request some insight from you guys

    - As far as I know my Paternal side of the family originated somewhere in Vukel region in albania, but settled into Martinaj (Martinovice) in probably the 1600-1700s. I am apart of the Martini Clan, a muslim member of the Kelmendi tribe, (Hasangjekaj)

    Any idea what my Haplogroup would be? or any of my origins?

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    Quote Originally Posted by excine View Post
    Hey everyone, newbie forum user here (just signed up today) I would like to request some insight from you guys

    - As far as I know my Paternal side of the family originated somewhere in Vukel region in albania, but settled into Martinaj (Martinovice) in probably the 1600-1700s. I am apart of the Martini Clan, a muslim member of the Kelmendi tribe, (Hasangjekaj)

    Any idea what my Haplogroup would be? or any of my origins?
    If you're Kelmendi, there's a 99% chance that you fall under the E1b-V13>CTS9320>Z16988>Z27131>BY62310 cluster. You should still test to verify your personal lineage. Also, both the Hasangjekaj and Martini come from the same lineage, but the Hasangjekaj aren't descendants of Martin. Martin was from Selca, the Hasangjekaj are from Vukėl.

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    Ah okay thanks for clearing things up, is there any chance who my direct ancestor may be? I heard stories that some Kuci tribesmen had a kid named Kelmendi who had 7 sons, I am not sure how accurate that is though

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    Kelmendi seems to have been formed as a fis by three lineages, though BY62310 make up the majority. You could also be J2b-Y23094 or R1b-Z2705. Only testing would sort that out.

    Neither lineage has any connection to Kuqi.
    Last edited by broder; 09-24-2020 at 01:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Kelmendi seems to have been formed as a fis by three lineages, though BY62310 make up the majority. You could also be J2b-Y23094 or R1b-Z2705. Only testing would sort that out.

    Neither lineage has any connection to Kuqi.
    No. BY62310 doesn't make up the majority - it is the only Kelmendi lineage. The (very few) results to which you refer are not part of the Kelmendi fis, but fis in Kosovo which adopted the Kelmendi name, but they're not Kelmendi. There are quite a few such lineages in Kosovo in all fis. You can tell them apart from an actual X fis lineage in a very simple way: All actual lineages can be linked to the common ancestor and/or a particular microregion (a village, a settlement etc.), but for lineages that adopted the name no such link exists.

    The ancestor of Kelmendi married a woman from the Bekaj brotherhood of Trieshi in the later Kuci nahiye of the Ottoman Empire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleschreiber View Post
    No. BY62310 doesn't make up the majority - it is the only Kelmendi lineage. The (very few) results to which you refer are not part of the Kelmendi fis, but fis in Kosovo which adopted the Kelmendi name, but they're not Kelmendi. There are quite a few such lineages in Kosovo in all fis. You can tell them apart from an actual X fis lineage in a very simple way: All actual lineages can be linked to the common ancestor and/or a particular microregion (a village, a settlement etc.), but for lineages that adopted the name no such link exists.

    The ancestor of Kelmendi married a woman from the Bekaj brotherhood of Trieshi in the later Kuci nahiye of the Ottoman Empire
    You're wrong. Rukaj that are J2b-Y23094 and Prekelezaj J2b-L283 (Most likely Y23094 like Rukaj) are not from Kosove. Rukaj are Nikē from Tamare while Prekelezaj from Nikē, Malesi. Same thing for Muriqi who are R1b-Z2705. They are part of the Kelmendi fis and have been ever since Kelmendi started forming as a fis.

    Neither of those families are considered Anas or families that have joined Kelmend.

    Our fis in majority of the cases are complex settlements that developed into a fis/tribe.

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    There are also Boge from Boge that have tested and are V13>L241 (probably PH2180 like some Shkrel families).

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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    You're wrong. Rukaj that are J2b-Y23094 and Prekelezaj J2b-L283 (Most likely Y23094 like Rukaj) are not from Kosove. Rukaj are Nikē from Tamare while Prekelezaj from Nikē, Malesi. Same thing for Muriqi who are R1b-Z2705. They are part of the Kelmendi fis and have been ever since Kelmendi started forming as a fis.

    Neither of those families are considered Anas or families that have joined Kelmend.

    Our fis in majority of the cases are complex settlements that developed into a fis/tribe.
    I was referring to the Muriqi samples which are from Peja. I wasn't aware of these other results - but again the main point is the same: they are not patrilineally descended from Kelmendi. Also, I'm not saying that in a cultural sense some of these families are not part of Kelmendi. There are many ways via which a fis i vogėl can acquire the name of a fis - it doesn't have to be anas. They can be adopted or they can be matrilineal descendants or they can be part of another fis which gradually became part of the other fis. For example, we know from the defter of Shkodra in the late 15th century that with Kelmendi also lived the fis of Goljemadhi.

    So, instead of saying that Kelmendi is composed of different lineages - it helps us better if we say that there is a "Kelmendi proper" lineage and other lineages which also carry the name via different historical pathways. That will help us to also identify fis that haven't left many traces in historical records.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleschreiber View Post
    I was referring to the Muriqi samples which are from Peja. I wasn't aware of these other results - but again the main point is the same: they are not patrilineally descended from Kelmendi. Also, I'm not saying that in a cultural sense some of these families are not part of Kelmendi. There are many ways via which a fis i vogėl can acquire the name of a fis - it doesn't have to be anas. They can be adopted or they can be matrilineal descendants or they can be part of another fis which gradually became part of the other fis. For example, we know from the defter of Shkodra in the late 15th century that with Kelmendi also lived the fis of Goljemadhi.

    So, instead of saying that Kelmendi is composed of different lineages - it helps us better if we say that there is a "Kelmendi proper" lineage and other lineages which also carry the name via different historical pathways. That will help us to also identify fis that haven't left many traces in historical records.
    Every fis needs to be studied in detail before we can attribute a linage as the true representative or the 'proper' linage of the fis, especially when two or three lineages were part of the same settlement and identified as kin since their ethnogenesis.

    What we can say is that BY62310 grew faster and came to dominate the fis. With that I would I agree.
    Last edited by broder; 09-24-2020 at 05:27 PM.

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