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Thread: South Asian Genetics: A Punjabi Story

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    South Asian Genetics: A Punjabi Story

    Came across this article on Medium a while ago:

    Iíve received some questions regarding Punjabi genetics, so thought Iíd share some of the data on this topic. As per usual, charts are constructed with Harappa Gedmatch scores.


    Above is a PCA chart with selected Punjabi groups highlighted. I didnít include every tribe as it would just look like an inscrutable mess of many colored dots, so I selected from both the larger and more interesting Punjabi groups. A few notes below:

    • There is a tendency among Punjabis to ignore the lower-castes among them, or if they are acknowledged, imply that they arenít, ďreal PunjabisĒ. Now while its true that Punjabi Dalits show signs of possibly being migrants from the Gangetic Plains, I still think they should be included in these analysis. The Dalit group is drawn from samples collected in Lahore, and as you can see, forms its own cluster. This is roughly where you would find mid to low-caste North-Indians and mid to upper-caste South-Indians.


    • Punjabi Chamars form a kind of bridge between the Dalits and upper-caste Punjabis. This genetic position may be reflected socially, as Sara Singha notes that due to certain Punjabi Dalits converting to Christianity, the Chamars in West Punjab converted to Islam, as they didnít want to be associated with the former. The Chamars are still however considered low-caste by the major Punjabi tribes. Their position on the chart is roughly equivalent to a North-Indian Kshatriya.


    • The final grouping on the right is about where most Punjabis cluster. In fact, using the 1931 British-Punjab census as a baseline, about 2/3rds of Punjabis can be found in the space just towards the right of the Chamar cluster (upper-caste). This figure varies between religious groups though. Only about 55% of Hindu Punjabis are upper-caste, compared to 75% of Muslim Punjabis, and 85% of Sikh Punjabis. Sikhs are a bit skewed as nearly 66% of their population is entirely Jat, while no single tribe comprises more than 20% of the population among Hindus and Muslims.


    • Among the upper-caste cluster above, a couple trends are apparent. First, in contrast to most of India, Brahmans are not the most Western-shifted caste of their ethnicity. In fact, there seem to be a number of Punjabi tribes that surpass them in this regard. Second, Indians Jats (particularly in Haryana) are getting pulled out of the main Punjabi cluster due to their large amount of European-Steppe admixture. Pakistani Jats arenít pictured here, but tend to be more in line with the general Punjabi cline, and would be somewhere in the middle of the upper-caste cluster.



    Above is a quick chart I put together for all the different Punjabi groups I had, since they wouldnít fit on the PCA, or there werenít enough samples. The order was based on geography; Pakistani-Punjabis towards starting on the left, Sikh and general Indian Punjabis in the middle, with Haryana and Himachal Punjabis at the end. A quick note on the legend below:
    Ancestral Indian refers to the original Indian hunter gatherers who populated the Indian subcontinent. Ancient Iranian refers to the Iranian hunter gatherers who likely arrived later and mixed with the Ancestral Indians in the Indus Valley. European refers to the genetic signal from the Indo-Aryans, who were the next group to arrive in the region. West Asian signifies later admixture from West Asia and the Middle-East. East Asian is, well, East Asian, largely from Eastern-Steppe groups (Scythians, Turks, Mongols) with a bit from Tibet.
    Thereís more to say on this topic but I donít like inundating readers with too many words, so Iíll break for now. Feel free to shoot me any questions or comments.
    https://medium.com/@ArainGang/south-...y-380777b1e1e1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatagus View Post
    Came across this article on Medium a while ago:



    https://medium.com/@ArainGang/south-...y-380777b1e1e1
    The Sikh Ramgarhia is my own data, and Himachali/Haryanvi Tarkhan samples are from my database. Seems like someone is browsing our forum. Is this based on Harappa? Feels very outdated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    The Sikh Ramgarhia is my own data, and Himachali/Haryanvi Tarkhan samples are from my database. Seems like someone is browsing our forum. Is this based on Harappa? Feels very outdated.
    this article is written by a arain dude and also a member on defence.pk forum
    Last edited by gudar; 05-09-2020 at 04:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatagus View Post
    Came across this article on Medium a while ago:



    https://medium.com/@ArainGang/south-...y-380777b1e1e1
    Wish we had some more Saraiki results here, barely see any but this was an interesting article

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    that article is written by pak defence member , who is arain and is medical student in USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gudar View Post
    this article is written by a arain dude and also a member on defence.pk forum
    I have seen this guy on Reddit as well looking for Punjabi gedmatch results. A lot of these folks are a part of Pakistani nationalists present on various sites. Their views on various topics are skewed. Some of them are grabbing data from anthrogenica, and the other anthro forums.

    That being said let's not bring up what people are doing on various other sites. It will only attract those trolls to register here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    I have seen this guy on Reddit as well looking for Punjabi gedmatch results. A lot of these folks are a part of Pakistani nationalists present on various sites. Their views on various topics are skewed. Some of them are grabbing data from anthrogenica, and the other anthro forums.
    I honestly fail to see how the authorís perceived political views are in any way relevant to this thread. Additionally, I donít understand how Ďgrabbing dataí is problematic in this context given that no personal names or any other sort of identifiers that may be considered private are used. Itís similar to posting HarappaWorld results of users you come across on Gedmatch on this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatagus View Post
    I honestly fail to see how the authorís perceived political views are in any way relevant to this thread. Additionally, I donít understand how Ďgrabbing dataí is problematic in this context given that no personal names or any other sort of identifiers that may be considered private are used. Itís similar to posting HarappaWorld results of users you come across on Gedmatch on this site.
    They become an issue when illogical arguments based on country of birth and origin are made. This has been an issue here before. I don't mind people 'grabbing data'. The article posted by the 'ArianGang' is way out of date. Unless, you are him, then I would encourage you to look at the G25 thread.

    There is no need to change size of the font while responding to me. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatagus View Post
    I honestly fail to see how the author’s perceived political views are in any way relevant to this thread. Additionally, I don’t understand how ‘grabbing data’ is problematic in this context given that no personal names or any other sort of identifiers that may be considered private are used. It’s similar to posting HarappaWorld results of users you come across on Gedmatch on this site.
    I'm not pointing any issues with the data used. I'm pointing it out who is who. While the post and data is outdated, I personally see nothing political in it. It's no different than a lot of blog posts we come across.

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    That bar chart is very 2012 and even the categories lol

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