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Thread: My fellow R1b-Z2103+European Steppe + downstream subclades including Yamnaya Z2109+

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    My fellow R1b-Z2103+European Steppe + downstream subclades including Yamnaya Z2109+

    A thread dedicated to all who share R1b-Z2103+subclades; and comment on possible place of origin and dispersal-migrations-cultural influence, without getting sidetracked.

    So if you share the R1b-Z2103 and subclades feel to comment!

    I did not want to believe some( Mis-clade ), but it actually looks like Corded Ware was influenced by Yamnaya component in a major way! While reading papers on Corded Ware and the relation to Yamnaya+ and by looking at the Northern Germanic project BY-250 R1b-BY250-Northern Germanic
    R1b Sub-Clade BY250 plus specific R1b sub-clades in Corded Ware area
    (Lancers clade) !
    Last edited by Silesian; 09-25-2020 at 04:12 PM.
    Yamnaya Orthodox-3000+/- years of barrow burial culture; containing either, red ochre,axe/dagger, horse remains.
    ydna and or mtdna under study z2109/U5a1
    R1b-Z2103+>R1b-Z2110+ -Yamnaya-Afanasievo -3300–2600 BC, Poltavka- Catacomb-2800–2200 BC, Csepel Island Hungary, Vucedol, Eastern Bell Beakers- Poland -Sambrozec 2800–1800 BCE, Karagash-Khazakhstan 3018-2887 BC-Iran Hajji_Firuz I2327 , Rise 397 Kapan LBA, Armenia , Pokrovka Sarmatians 200 BCE. R1b-Z2109 Sintashta

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     aaronbee2010 (09-25-2020),  Johane Derite (09-25-2020),  Mis (09-25-2020),  Piquerobi (10-28-2020)

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    Are you saying you are as surprised as I am that this haplogroup R1b-Z2103 has such strong Germanic Ancestry?
    Last edited by Lancer; 09-25-2020 at 08:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
    Are you saying you are as surprised as I am that this haplogroup R1b-Z2103 has such strong Germanic Ancestry?
    Lancer what is your opinion on this, an upstream sample connecting to Mis and myself, in Poland!
    formed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 3900 ybpinfo
    BY250*

    https://yfull.com/tree/R-BY250/
    Last edited by Silesian; 09-26-2020 at 11:45 AM.
    Yamnaya Orthodox-3000+/- years of barrow burial culture; containing either, red ochre,axe/dagger, horse remains.
    ydna and or mtdna under study z2109/U5a1
    R1b-Z2103+>R1b-Z2110+ -Yamnaya-Afanasievo -3300–2600 BC, Poltavka- Catacomb-2800–2200 BC, Csepel Island Hungary, Vucedol, Eastern Bell Beakers- Poland -Sambrozec 2800–1800 BCE, Karagash-Khazakhstan 3018-2887 BC-Iran Hajji_Firuz I2327 , Rise 397 Kapan LBA, Armenia , Pokrovka Sarmatians 200 BCE. R1b-Z2109 Sintashta

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    Silesian,

    I test Derived for R1b-BY250 ( actually BY251) as well; hence my surprise and comment.

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     Silesian (09-26-2020)

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    On YFull there is a lot of BY250 in Rhineland-Palatinate (where my western clade of R1a-L1029 is from), for what it's worth. Early peoples used rivers as highways, and the Rhine is a fairly major one.

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    Also, here is where my BY250 comes from:
    PCA Distances
    Global 25
    Distance to: Louis_scaled
    0.01685147 Italian_Campania
    0.01976612 Sicilian_East
    0.02075575 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.02082644 Italian_Basilicata
    0.02109386 Italian_Apulia
    0.02155902 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    0.02165167 Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.02241145 Italian_Calabria
    0.02291327 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
    0.02299048 Italian_Abruzzo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
    Silesian,

    I test Derived for R1b-BY250 ( actually BY251) as well; hence my surprise and comment.
    Puzzle? R1b-BY250*is German.
    However the related branch are Italian?
    R-Y10789* [IT-CA]
    3300 ybp, TMRCA 2100 ybp infoR-Y30192*[IT-AV]
    We share a link in Russia- Mordoviya R-CTS1450
    CTS1450 * Y5594 * Y5593+4 SNPsformed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 4600 ybpinfo
    id:GRC14392107RUS [RU-MO]i

    Any ideas where the lines could have split, Sarmatian activity?
    Last edited by Silesian; 09-26-2020 at 08:24 PM.
    Yamnaya Orthodox-3000+/- years of barrow burial culture; containing either, red ochre,axe/dagger, horse remains.
    ydna and or mtdna under study z2109/U5a1
    R1b-Z2103+>R1b-Z2110+ -Yamnaya-Afanasievo -3300–2600 BC, Poltavka- Catacomb-2800–2200 BC, Csepel Island Hungary, Vucedol, Eastern Bell Beakers- Poland -Sambrozec 2800–1800 BCE, Karagash-Khazakhstan 3018-2887 BC-Iran Hajji_Firuz I2327 , Rise 397 Kapan LBA, Armenia , Pokrovka Sarmatians 200 BCE. R1b-Z2109 Sintashta

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    It sure would be nice if we had some Polish speakers who could get a hold of the
    Genetic analysis of the putative remains of general Władysław Sikorski
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19711812/
    I use to be able compare his str's with R1b 9219+5587 living in south Eastern Poland(Rzeszow Foothills), were the recent R1b-L52 samples in Corded Ware! Or even compare them with future Sarmatian samples when they are released.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...es?iframe=ymap

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-63138-w

    Only a handful of sites were actually tested.
    Yamnaya Orthodox-3000+/- years of barrow burial culture; containing either, red ochre,axe/dagger, horse remains.
    ydna and or mtdna under study z2109/U5a1
    R1b-Z2103+>R1b-Z2110+ -Yamnaya-Afanasievo -3300–2600 BC, Poltavka- Catacomb-2800–2200 BC, Csepel Island Hungary, Vucedol, Eastern Bell Beakers- Poland -Sambrozec 2800–1800 BCE, Karagash-Khazakhstan 3018-2887 BC-Iran Hajji_Firuz I2327 , Rise 397 Kapan LBA, Armenia , Pokrovka Sarmatians 200 BCE. R1b-Z2109 Sintashta

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    Anyone else notice
    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2020/...uced-into.html

    Interest in horses is in the same general region where the oldest wagons by Yamnaya-Catacombe and some old variants of Yersinia pestis like RK1.001 can be found. Not to mention shared language ideas between Caucasus proto-Kartvelian and other languages, in words like wine, etc.....

    Kartvelian (e.g. Georgian ღვინო [ɣvinɔ]),
    Interesting would be, if any Armenian samples had Yersinia pestis and or the Armenian language shared a common word for wine with any other language.
    Last edited by Silesian; 09-27-2020 at 02:13 PM.
    Yamnaya Orthodox-3000+/- years of barrow burial culture; containing either, red ochre,axe/dagger, horse remains.
    ydna and or mtdna under study z2109/U5a1
    R1b-Z2103+>R1b-Z2110+ -Yamnaya-Afanasievo -3300–2600 BC, Poltavka- Catacomb-2800–2200 BC, Csepel Island Hungary, Vucedol, Eastern Bell Beakers- Poland -Sambrozec 2800–1800 BCE, Karagash-Khazakhstan 3018-2887 BC-Iran Hajji_Firuz I2327 , Rise 397 Kapan LBA, Armenia , Pokrovka Sarmatians 200 BCE. R1b-Z2109 Sintashta

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    R1b-Z2108-2109+ Yamnaya,Afanashevo, Catacombe,Chemurchek, Okunev, Karasuk cultures ? No R1a, until much later Andronovo-Xiaohe Cemetery period, no oil burners, stelae, metals-gold-silver etc....


    No direct relationship has been shown with the Andronovo culture , which began in the middle of the 3rd millennium BC. the Afanashevo and Okunev cultures, but has not been demonstrated in the area of ​​the Xemirxek culture.
    The Xemirxek culture (also written as Qiemuerqieke , Shamirshak , Chemurchek , Ke'ermuqi and others) is an archaeological culture of the Bronze Age and Early Iron Age ( 2500 - 1800 BC ) in northwestern Sinkiang ( Dzungaria ) and contiguous areas of the Oblast Eastern Kazakhstan , the provinces of Bajan-Ölgi Hovd and Uvs in Western Mongolia and the autonomous republic of Altaiin Russia. It is the earliest known Bronze Age culture in Sinkiang.
    Are analysis of the Qiemu'erqieke (Shamirshak) cemeteries, Xinjian, China

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ian_China#pf32


    Stelae, oil burners, copper, bronze, rare sheep mutations. Perhaps the first metal connection with China Yellow basin region.

    Caucasians moving East.
    The connections with the Afanasievo and Qiemu’erqieke cultures have been made on the basis of the early date, some parallels between the shapes of the basketry and northern ceramics, and the identification of the Xiaohe and Gumuguo populations as Caucasoid (Xinjiang Institute of Archaeology 2003; Mallory and Mair
    Last edited by Silesian; 10-28-2020 at 04:44 PM.

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