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Thread: G25 Viking Paper Model

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    Well the Ancestry model was pretty close to our ethnicity estimates.. and the Celtic vs Germanic code plotted me as Orcadian and her as Irish..
    Well that's a 'moderns' calculator, and you're a 'modern'! Additionally, being 'Irish' makes it more likely to be accurate, given that there are not a large number of populations surrounding the Irish in 'genetic space', unlike the English. As for the C v G, that's interesting. That would point to a clear difference between yourself and Mum, but are you actually within the 'Orcadian' cluster, or is an 'Orcadian' your closest in terms of distance? As to these eyes you were safely in the Irish cluster.

    Did you get your Aggamemnon plot?

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  3. #142
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    I donít care what your eyes see. I know my ancestry.

  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    I don’t care what your eyes see. I know my ancestry.
    That has nothing to do with what I was saying. I'm starting to wonder if you actually read any of these posts. We're trying to help you understand. These plots do not equal ethnicity/ancestry!! You can be in a number of clusters on these plots, that are not reflective of your ancestry. Have another read of that PM I sent a week or so ago, and if you need anything clarifying you can ask there.
    Last edited by jadegreg; 10-24-2020 at 03:44 PM.

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  6. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionnSneachta View Post
    I get quite a bit of Baltic with that G vs C calculator.

    Target: FionnS
    Distance: 1.4719% / 0.01471866
    54.8 CelticVK
    23.2 North_GermanicVK
    22.0 BalticVK

    It's the same 0.25 ADC
    Probably because the "Baltic" samples used here are not actually Baltic. They're from a ship-burial in Saareema, which is indeed in Estonia, but the people buried were almost all early Vikings of Swedish ancestry. They are also pretty close to the Norse vikings. Most likely this means you have some Scandinavian in your genetic heritage, either recent or way back. There's a few outliers with some Finnish ancestry, but most of the samples are very Swedish (>80%).

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  8. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bygdedweller View Post
    Probably because the "Baltic" samples used here are not actually Baltic. They're from a ship-burial in Saareema, which is indeed in Estonia, but the people buried were almost all early Vikings of Swedish ancestry. They are also pretty close to the Norse vikings. Most likely this means you have some Scandinavian in your genetic heritage, either recent or way back. There's a few outliers with some Finnish ancestry, but most of the samples are very Swedish (>80%).
    I guess those Swedish ancestry is overrated, the deep ancestry of Fionn is more Bell Beakerish, they are very Scandic like:

    Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I5750
    0.01748806 Swedish
    0.01798277 Orcadian
    0.01828611 Icelandic
    0.01908595 Welsh
    0.01977430 Scottish
    0.02021292 Dutch
    0.02026862 Afrikaner
    0.02052462 Irish
    0.02080360 English
    0.02092376 French_Brittany
    0.02099268 Norwegian
    0.02132625 German
    0.02193074 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.02260412 English_Cornwall
    0.02292403 Danish
    0.02332229 Shetlandic
    0.02333377 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.02387312 Belgian
    0.02454143 French_Nord
    0.02572745 French_Alsace
    0.02720506 Swiss_German
    0.02761567 French_Paris
    0.02785582 Austrian
    0.02796985 German_East
    0.02990451 French_Occitanie

    Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I5748
    0.02355857 Norwegian
    0.02409423 Icelandic
    0.02470650 Shetlandic
    0.02473854 Irish
    0.02544114 Scottish
    0.02549502 Swedish
    0.02567693 Dutch
    0.02569311 Orcadian
    0.02630714 Welsh
    0.02714215 Danish
    0.02787198 English
    0.02842046 English_Cornwall
    0.02890793 French_Brittany
    0.02923921 Afrikaner
    0.03088175 German
    0.03277939 Belgian
    0.03301946 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03404508 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03443021 French_Nord
    0.03555857 French_Alsace
    0.03566115 Finnish
    0.03686180 Austrian
    0.03687794 French_Paris
    0.03689360 German_East
    0.03758481 Swiss_German

    Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I4076
    0.02055626 Shetlandic
    0.02059533 Swedish
    0.02082338 Icelandic
    0.02128441 Irish
    0.02129581 Dutch
    0.02131430 Norwegian
    0.02169191 Scottish
    0.02193767 Danish
    0.02260155 Orcadian
    0.02374733 Welsh
    0.02468611 English
    0.02483004 English_Cornwall
    0.02499850 Afrikaner
    0.02551496 French_Brittany
    0.02678259 German
    0.02940338 Belgian
    0.03037705 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03044297 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03076934 French_Nord
    0.03224418 French_Alsace
    0.03232712 German_East
    0.03289230 Finnish
    0.03301472 Austrian
    0.03357667 Swiss_German
    0.03357848 French_Paris

    Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I4075
    0.02373021 Swedish
    0.02404134 Icelandic
    0.02419863 Orcadian
    0.02571140 Danish
    0.02572341 Scottish
    0.02656115 Welsh
    0.02661807 English
    0.02666983 Afrikaner
    0.02696732 Irish
    0.02716651 Dutch
    0.02718546 German
    0.02730659 English_Cornwall
    0.02784466 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.02790229 German_East
    0.02808829 French_Brittany
    0.02889567 Shetlandic
    0.02934702 Norwegian
    0.03044535 Finnish
    0.03075983 Belgian
    0.03098236 French_Nord
    0.03147901 French_Alsace
    0.03237044 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03263997 Czech
    0.03267178 Swiss_German
    0.03280090 Austrian

    Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I4074
    0.02200523 Icelandic
    0.02381583 Swedish
    0.02417287 Irish
    0.02429530 Norwegian
    0.02454579 Orcadian
    0.02475678 Scottish
    0.02484783 Dutch
    0.02529888 Welsh
    0.02592993 Danish
    0.02605704 English
    0.02697330 Shetlandic
    0.02730184 Afrikaner
    0.02749515 English_Cornwall
    0.02783569 French_Brittany
    0.02901436 German
    0.03099668 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03167293 Belgian
    0.03200570 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03280166 French_Nord
    0.03419152 French_Alsace
    0.03509797 French_Paris
    0.03574875 Austrian
    0.03597663 Swiss_German
    0.03600504 German_East
    0.03632344 Finnish

    Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I4073
    0.01948109 Icelandic
    0.02067603 Irish
    0.02097915 Scottish
    0.02148576 Orcadian
    0.02158939 Norwegian
    0.02240432 Welsh
    0.02253972 Dutch
    0.02308993 English
    0.02325573 Swedish
    0.02360830 Shetlandic
    0.02408498 English_Cornwall
    0.02458590 Danish
    0.02486037 French_Brittany
    0.02622971 Afrikaner
    0.02903489 German
    0.02984264 Belgian
    0.02987730 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03047253 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03119620 French_Nord
    0.03329124 French_Paris
    0.03329601 French_Alsace
    0.03403109 Swiss_German
    0.03707064 Austrian
    0.03729762 Finnish
    0.03755792 German_East

    Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I4069
    0.02492256 Norwegian
    0.02548739 Swedish
    0.02569688 Welsh
    0.02616080 Icelandic
    0.02651602 Dutch
    0.02664829 Irish
    0.02680224 Orcadian
    0.02690519 French_Brittany
    0.02721617 Afrikaner
    0.02726455 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.02745021 Scottish
    0.02813322 German
    0.02816457 English
    0.02901746 Shetlandic
    0.02926425 Danish
    0.02949193 English_Cornwall
    0.03000387 Belgian
    0.03094503 French_Nord
    0.03229489 French_Paris
    0.03232437 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03245435 French_Alsace
    0.03303824 Austrian
    0.03418132 Swiss_German
    0.03563064 Swiss_French
    0.03570892 French_Occitanie

    Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I4068
    0.02254477 Icelandic
    0.02365076 Norwegian
    0.02484322 Irish
    0.02511908 Dutch
    0.02523511 Scottish
    0.02544026 Swedish
    0.02610702 Danish
    0.02630369 Orcadian
    0.02662821 Welsh
    0.02723958 English
    0.02725643 Shetlandic
    0.02777625 English_Cornwall
    0.02938363 Afrikaner
    0.02948339 French_Brittany
    0.03159088 German
    0.03316421 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03336075 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03392668 Belgian
    0.03512193 French_Nord
    0.03582681 French_Paris
    0.03656474 French_Alsace
    0.03862137 Austrian
    0.03884205 Swiss_German
    0.03931640 Czech
    0.03954261 German_East
    Last edited by Finn; 10-24-2020 at 04:57 PM.

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  10. #146
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    'Anachronistic model' Dutch Bell Beakers compared to modern NW Europeans, unscaled:

  11. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadegreg View Post
    That has nothing to do with what I was saying. I'm starting to wonder if you actually read any of these posts. We're trying to help you understand. These plots do not equal ethnicity/ancestry!! You can be in a number of clusters on these plots, that are not reflective of your ancestry. Have another read of that PM I sent a week or so ago, and if you need anything clarifying you can ask there.
    It's like talking to a tree Greg. The tree won't hear you

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  13. #148
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    The Rathlins anachronistic:


  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    I guess those Swedish ancestry is overacted
    Not sure I get what you mean. In what way? If you mean the numbers I referred to, that's from the supplemental table, so it should be accurate. The isotope-analyses done on these samples indicates Central Swedish origin as well, so it is not surprising that they are relatively homogenous coming from a less "continental" region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    the deep ancestry of Fionn is more Bell Beakerish, they are very Scandic like:
    Bell Beakers are very much ancestral to the Irish, so that makes sense. But there was also a notable genetic input from Scandinavia into Ireland during the Viking age, which was talked about in the VA paper-thread. On a tangent to this, I'm not sure I understand why these Bell Beakers should be closer to Scandinavians and Icelanders than to their respective descendant-populations. Although there is obviously a shared gene pool across all of NW Europe, I suspect it has to do with Bell Beakers having similar proportions of STEPPE-WHG-EEF ancestry.

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  16. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bygdedweller View Post
    Not sure I get what you mean. In what way? If you mean the numbers I referred to, that's from the supplemental table, so it should be accurate. The isotope-analyses done on these samples indicates Central Swedish origin as well, so it is not surprising that they are relatively homogenous coming from a less "continental" region.



    Bell Beakers are very much ancestral to the Irish, so that makes sense. But there was also a notable genetic input from Scandinavia into Ireland during the Viking age, which was talked about in the VA paper-thread. On a tangent to this, I'm not sure I understand why these Bell Beakers should be closer to Scandinavians and Icelanders than to their respective descendant-populations. Although there is obviously a shared gene pool across all of NW Europe, I suspect it has to do with Bell Beakers having similar proportions of STEPPE-WHG-EEF ancestry.
    I guess it's very difficult to disentangle. The Bell Beakers and 'post Beakers' spread all over the place, at least all area's around the North Sea.
    Of course there is later on a Scandic influence. In the case of Fionn (and also myself) we get in the models often Scandic results. Besides the possibility of Swedish ancestry, this can also point at deep ancestry. When Fionn and I are still very "muted Bell Beakers" it is very likely that the 'Scandic' amounts are in fact 'Bell Beaker' amounts.
    So that's why I say Swedish ancestry is somewhat overrated in cases like Fionn or Finn....
    Last edited by Finn; 10-24-2020 at 06:19 PM.

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