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Thread: G25 Viking Paper Model

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    I read that quote as meaning he believes the PCA results represent NW European genetic drift, but I wonder if that is what he meant
    I remember him saying it represented British Isles specific drift. I could most likely find the direct quote sometime.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    I have no idea if or how drift is related to either of these calculators, or how that would be incorporated into something like this.

    Both the C vs G and the G25 are PCAs, so they’re presenting us with visual representations of data in which the data is relevant or informative when compared to the other data points within the PCA.
    Davidski once said that the Global 25 is more useful than the C vs G, and that’s true, because the G25 presents data on a global scale, using all populations from around the world. If you have someone of mixed African and European ancestry, you can use it to plot their position on the Global 25 and use something like nMonte to provide an ethnicity estimate for that individual using populations relevant to them. If I were trying to assess my ethnicity, for example, as I have NW European, Eastern European, and native American ancestry, the Celtic vs Germanic PCA is not going to be very informative because it’s so confined.

    The north-western European genetic type is also limited to a relatively recent window in time, and so if we want to use samples from the Bronze Age or older to model our ancestry, the Celtic vs Germanic PCA won’t do the job.
    On a global scale, or at least in the G25, the northwestern European genetic type kind of piles on top of one another, probably because these populations are all descendants of the same groups of peoples just in varying amounts, as you well know, and we’ve seen on countless PCAs that the north-western cluster for G25 includes Nordic and Insular Celtic types, very closely together.

    By whatever method was used, the result is that the Celtic vs Germanic PCA is zoomed in on western Europe, and in doing so, it shows us a defined divide between not only modern people from Britain, Ireland, and the Nordic regions, but also to the more recent ancient samples from this region, such as the Iron Age Britons and the Anglo-Saxons, who, by the way, share the same genetic space in the Global 25 and are clearly divided in the Celtic vs Germanic PCA.
    When someone like Davidski, who seems to be interested in the bigger questions, such as who the people who brought the Indo-European languages and the R1b lines to Europe were, he needs to use something that examines the data on a global scale. For someone like me, however, who is most of the time narrowly focused on the Iron Age in a pocket of the European continent, and in teasing apart differences between the related northwest European groups, the Celtic vs Germanic PCA is more informative for that very specific task.

    So when you say “I don’t know if it (the C vs G PCA) is very informative when trying to assess admixture” that’s not necessarily true – if the admixture we are trying to assess is something specific to northwestern Europeans then the C vs G is very informative. The answer is that it’s contextual, and it depends upon the question you are trying to ask.
    Essentially, when using admixture tools for these PCAs, it takes the position you plot at, and tries to use the surrounding populations in varying proportions to match that position, so your results are going to be affected by the populations nearest to your position.

    I took the same ancient samples from both the Global 25 and the C vs G PCA to make a comparison:

    G25
    Distance to: Jessie_scaled
    0.02356175 England_Saxon:NO3423
    0.02422726 England_IA:I0156
    0.02964146 England_Roman:6DT23
    0.03076276 England_Saxon:I0161
    0.03144684 England_Roman:6DT22
    0.03168301 England_Roman:6DT21
    0.03199100 England_Saxon:I0773
    0.03273178 England_Roman:6DT3
    0.03309352 England_Roman:6DT18
    0.03460864 ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian_Gaelic:STT-A-2
    0.03498878 England_Roman:3DT16
    0.03776544 ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian_Gaelic:SSG-A-4
    0.04058783 England_IA:M1489
    0.04165289 England_IA:I0789
    0.04231330 ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian_Norse:VDP-A-5
    0.06069484 ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian_Norse:NNM-A-1

    CvsG
    Distance to: Jessie
    0.02039608 England_Roman:6DT22
    0.02338482 ISL_Viking_Age_Gaelic:SSG-A4
    0.02471943 England_Roman:6DT21
    0.02654694 England_IA:HI1-I0156
    0.02782355 England_Roman:6DT3
    0.02800161 England_Roman:6DT23
    0.02838767 England_IA:L-I0789
    0.02940646 ISL_Viking_Age_Norse:VDP-A5
    0.03011063 England_IA:M1489
    0.03090647 England_Anglo-Saxon:HS3-I0161
    0.03268486 England_Roman:6DT18
    0.03385439 England_Anglo-Saxon:NO3423
    0.03490014 ISL_Viking_Age_Gaelic:STT-A2
    0.03879201 England_Anglo-Saxon:O2-I0773
    0.04093715 England_Roman:3DT16
    0.04836455 ISL_Viking_Age_Norse:NNM-A1

    We know that for you, as an Irish person, it doesn’t make sense to have an Anglo-Saxon as your closest reference population, but when we examine the closest item distances on the C vs G PCA, it makes a lot more sense, because one of the Icelandic Gaels, SSG-A4, is your second closest distance match, after one of the Roman Britons. Further, if we look at further down at the closest item distance list for the C vs G PCA, the closest match you have that isn’t considered to be Celtic is Norse, which also makes sense given what we know about the history of Ireland.

    If we compare these models using admixture, using no penalty and then using ADC 0.5x, here’s how it looks:

    Target: Jessie_scaled
    Distance: 1.5708% / 0.01570767 | ADC: 0.5x
    39.2 England_Saxon
    33.8 England_IA
    27.0 England_Roman

    Target: Jessie_scaled
    Distance: 1.4542% / 0.01454236
    45.2 England_Roman
    34.2 England_IA
    11.4 ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian_Norse
    9.2 England_Saxon

    Actually, the Global 25 did a pretty good job, relatively speaking, on the model without penalty, but we ran into the Saxon problem the moment distance penalty was incorporated.

    Target: Jessie
    Distance: 1.2487% / 0.01248663 | ADC: 0.5x
    64.6 England_Roman
    23.0 ISL_Viking_Age_Gaelic
    7.6 England_IA
    4.0 ISL_Viking_Age_Norse
    0.8 England_Anglo-Saxon

    Target: Jessie
    Distance: 1.2178% / 0.01217817
    57.4 England_Roman
    19.4 ISL_Viking_Age_Gaelic
    8.8 England_Anglo-Saxon
    7.6 England_IA
    6.8 ISL_Viking_Age_Norse

    We can see that the C vs G PCA run produced much more realistic results, including utilizing more of the populations historical associated with the Irish. It also produced results with lower distances.

    This ties into why it’s so important that we see how these new Viking samples plot on the Celtic vs Germanic PCA; in Global 25, there’s so much overlap in the northwestern region that the fact that these overlap with the “Celtic” populations on that isn’t very informative. We need to see if this overlap persists with the English regions and the Vikings on the C vs G, particularly the parts of the PCA where people with a lot of British ancestry plot, to get an idea about if these Vikings really did affect the modern day British genetic type.

    Finally, here are the models I used for these runs, so that you can see that I used the same samples for each PCA:

    G25
    Code:
    England_Saxon:I0161,0.12862,0.13405,0.061848,0.048127,0.04647,0.020638,0.004465,0.005077,0.006749,0.004738,-0.002436,0.004946,-0.006987,-0.012799,0.024158,0.006895,0.004563,0.0019,0.003645,0.005503,0.002246,-0.00272,0.006779,0.016267,0.003233
    England_Saxon:I0773,0.141141,0.126941,0.063356,0.071383,0.044008,0.024263,0.00799,0.011307,0.00409,-0.00656,-0.005359,0.005395,-0.01219,-0.013074,0.021172,0.011668,-0.001434,0.000887,0.008673,0.008629,0.010981,0.003957,-0.003081,0.015544,-0.007424
    England_Saxon:NO3423,0.129758,0.13405,0.068259,0.062339,0.0397,0.017012,0.004465,0.002077,0.001227,-0.007107,-0.007795,0.001499,-0.010852,-0.010459,0.027823,0.005569,-0.014212,0.004561,-0.000126,0.005002,0.009982,0.002473,0.002465,0.015183,0.001916
    England_IA:I0156,0.132035,0.138112,0.057699,0.053295,0.038776,0.017291,0.001645,0.003,0.007976,0.00328,-0.00682,0.005845,-0.015609,-0.017478,0.025108,0.011403,0.001434,-0.005194,-0.000754,0.006503,0.00836,-0.005812,-0.004437,0.013496,-0.005029
    England_IA:I0789,0.136588,0.12491,0.062979,0.048127,0.0397,0.016733,0.009635,-0.000692,0.005727,-0.001093,-0.008931,0,0.000149,-0.020506,0.006786,0.020817,0.008996,0.000507,0.003017,0.007629,0.001373,0.001607,-0.004807,0.010122,0.007784
    England_IA:M1489,0.12862,0.123895,0.060339,0.040375,0.027697,0.023148,0.005405,0.003231,0.001227,0.010752,0.005684,0.007343,-0.010406,-0.016928,0.020222,0.014054,0.01017,-0.004561,0.00352,-0.001626,0.001622,0.003586,-0.001972,0.00964,-0.000479
    England_Roman:3DT16,0.126344,0.14319,0.065619,0.057171,0.038469,0.021196,0.00141,-0.001154,0.008385,0.009659,0.003248,0.002997,-0.012785,-0.009358,0.014115,0.001061,-0.007953,0.003041,0.002011,-0.006753,0.005865,0.005935,-0.001479,0.007953,-0.000479
    England_Roman:6DT18,0.125205,0.142174,0.058454,0.050388,0.046162,0.021196,0.0047,0.008538,-0.000818,0.005103,0.000487,0.012589,-0.017393,-0.020368,0.023887,0.006762,-0.005346,-0.003041,0.012444,0.001,0.007986,0.000866,-0.00419,0.013857,-0.003353
    England_Roman:6DT21,0.126344,0.12491,0.061471,0.047804,0.027697,0.013945,0.005405,0.009923,-0.00225,-0.000911,-0.019487,0.012589,-0.011447,-0.007707,0.019951,0.006099,-0.008345,-0.003927,0.002765,0.003752,0.002246,0.001237,0.003697,0.002289,-0.001317
    England_Roman:6DT22,0.125205,0.140143,0.061094,0.045866,0.038776,0.014223,0.004935,0.005077,0.003068,0.000729,-0.004872,0.001349,-0.01115,-0.016928,0.016015,0.000796,0.000652,0.003927,0.006159,0,0.003993,0.005441,-0.011462,-0.00012,-0.000359
    England_Roman:6DT23,0.126344,0.141159,0.060339,0.046512,0.036622,0.009482,0.005405,0.008077,0.00225,0.001458,-0.008607,0.006744,-0.016055,-0.007019,0.030944,-0.003845,-0.018906,0.004181,-0.003268,0.012506,0.004492,-0.004081,-0.010476,0.008917,-0.001916
    England_Roman:6DT3,0.132035,0.13405,0.058077,0.050711,0.033237,0.029005,0.008225,0.003461,0.001023,-0.004556,-0.005034,0.005245,-0.017096,-0.005918,0.028908,-0.011403,-0.023469,0.001774,0.003142,0.006378,0.010731,0.000124,-0.002588,0.011086,0.002874
    ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian_Gaelic:SSG-A-4,0.124067,0.133034,0.069767,0.056848,0.032929,0.027331,0.001175,0.008769,0.00409,0.008565,-0.009094,0.006294,-0.014866,-0.025873,0.022122,0.008618,0.000522,0,0.011816,0.002626,0.005989,0.003091,0.006286,0.019159,0.008023
    ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian_Gaelic:STT-A-2,0.12862,0.135065,0.060339,0.066861,0.035083,0.021475,0.00564,0.006,-0.000614,-0.001822,-0.005684,0.007943,-0.016055,-0.02202,0.031487,0.020154,0.004694,0.005321,0.003017,0.002751,-0.000499,0.001484,-0.006039,0.006748,0.001796
    ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian_Norse:NNM-A-1,0.136588,0.118817,0.07995,0.076228,0.048932,0.011435,0.00517,0.018922,0.002659,-0.014032,0.001786,-0.001349,0.018285,-0.002202,0.023887,0.005038,0.004303,-0.000633,0.003771,0.011506,-0.001747,0.013725,0.008997,0.029643,0.008622
    ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian_Norse:VDP-A-5,0.126344,0.123895,0.076555,0.062016,0.03139,0.018128,0.007755,0.007615,0.009204,-0.007472,0.001624,0.007493,-0.009514,-0.018992,0.025651,0.02254,0.01356,0.004814,0.000377,0.002876,0.004742,0.005935,0.002095,0.012652,-0.00467
    CvsG
    Code:
    England_Anglo-Saxon:HS3-I0161,-0.0206,-0.0005,0.0075,-0.0059,-0.0108,-0.0058,0.0039,-0.0024,0.0031,-0.0044,0.0075,0.0044,-0.0034,0.0022,-0.0037,-0.009,-0.0037,-0.0083,-0.0067,0.0059,-0.0081,0.0077,-0.0006,0.0054,0.0043
    England_Anglo-Saxon:NO3423,-0.0373,-0.0027,0.0008,0.0056,-0.0048,-0.0027,-0.0049,0.0035,-0.0049,0.0023,-0.0032,-0.0014,0.002,0.0071,0.0107,0.0006,-0.0049,-0.0038,-0.0107,-0.0022,-0.002,-0.0055,0.0008,-0.0029,0.0036
    England_Anglo-Saxon:O2-I0773,-0.0356,-0.01,0.0033,-0.0045,0.0013,-0.0089,-0.0041,0.0053,0.004,0.0011,0.0016,0.0011,0.0009,-0.0032,0.0033,-0.0017,0.0033,0.0016,-0.0091,0.006,-0.0025,0.0106,-0.0114,0.0063,-0.0024
    England_IA:HI1-I0156,-0.0188,0.0033,0.015,-0.0089,-0.0095,-0.0042,0.0007,-0.0024,-0.0051,0.0012,0.0008,-0.0016,-0.002,-0.0018,-0.0002,-0.0007,0.006,0.0056,-0.0009,-0.0026,-0.0059,0.0019,0.0046,0.0001,0.0039
    England_IA:L-I0789,-0.0144,0.0031,0.0068,0.0005,-0.0032,-0.0076,0.0005,-0.0005,-0.004,0.0063,0.0059,-0.0077,-0.0004,-0.0018,0.0069,0.0053,-0.0026,-0.001,-0.0021,0.0027,0.0031,-0.0004,0.0047,0.0016,0.0046
    England_IA:M1489,-0.0058,0.0124,0.0116,-0.0108,-0.0026,-0.0037,-0.009,0.0054,0.0055,0.0004,-0.0084,0.0024,0.0015,0.0016,0.0047,-0.0011,0.0041,0.0058,0.0017,-0.0009,-0.0019,0.0059,0.003,-0.0033,-0.0017
    England_Roman:3DT16,-0.0157,0.0035,-0.0059,-0.0014,0.0135,0.005,0.0079,0.0024,-0.0038,0.0027,0.0014,-0.0093,0.0016,-0.0137,-0.0031,0.0067,-0.0039,0.0124,-0.0025,0.0018,0.0075,-0.0065,0.0104,0.001,0.0034
    England_Roman:6DT18,-0.0257,-0.0002,-0.0106,-0.0069,-0.0033,-0.0112,-0.0049,-0.0051,0.0022,0.0024,-0.0053,0.0001,-0.0054,0.0091,0.0057,0.0037,-0.0054,0.0003,0.0002,0.0011,0.0024,-0.002,-0.0084,-0.0016,-0.0033
    England_Roman:6DT21,-0.0187,0.017,-0.0013,-0.013,-0.0123,0.0012,-0.0032,0.0061,0.0014,0.0057,-0.0014,-0.0038,0.0043,-0.0008,0.0069,-0.0081,-0.0008,0.0061,-0.0044,0.0003,0.0076,0.0007,-0.0052,0.0033,0.0028
    England_Roman:6DT22,-0.0177,0.0029,-0.003,-0.0092,-0.0086,-0.0035,0.0004,-0.0006,0.0015,-0.0016,0.0075,0.0015,0.0059,0.0006,0.0021,-0.0055,-0.0012,0.0027,-0.0013,0.0022,0.0046,0.0018,-0.0032,-0.0009,-0.0011
    England_Roman:6DT23,-0.0108,0.007,-0.0024,-0.0001,-0.0063,0.0061,-0.0041,0.0028,0.0008,-0.0014,-0.0039,-0.0035,0.0007,-0.0081,-0.0004,0.009,0.0016,0.0086,-0.0062,0.0031,0.0025,-0.0024,0.0042,-0.0012,-0.005
    England_Roman:6DT3,-0.0146,0.017,-0.0075,-0.0043,-0.0021,-0.0006,-0.001,0.0046,0.0069,-0.0021,0.0015,-0.0028,-0.0033,-0.0039,0.0105,0.009,-0.0049,-0.0063,-0.0102,0.004,0.0015,-0.0107,0.0063,-0.0052,0.0006
    ISL_Viking_Age_Gaelic:SSG-A4,-0.0214,0.0154,0.0056,-0.009,0.0054,-0.0003,-0.0013,-0.0009,-0.0041,0.0022,0.0034,-0.002,-0.0047,-0.0017,-0.0006,0.0006,-0.0035,-0.0004,0.0086,0.0043,-0.0007,0.002,0.0036,0.0047,0.0008
    ISL_Viking_Age_Gaelic:STT-A2,-0.0243,0.004,0.0173,0.0034,0.009,0.0052,-0.0014,0.004,-0.0001,0.0015,-0.0006,0.0012,0.0023,-0.0012,-0.0058,-0.003,0.0022,0.0103,-0.0037,-0.0067,-0.0018,-0.0019,-0.0035,-0.0014,0.0007
    ISL_Viking_Age_Norse:NNM-A1,-0.0408,-0.0043,0.0097,0.0093,-0.0045,-0.0079,-0.0048,0.0027,-0.0054,-0.0085,-0.0092,-0.0061,-0.008,-0.0107,0.0001,0.0024,0.0015,0.0152,-0.0078,-0.0016,0,0.0005,-0.0082,0.0074,0.0098
    ISL_Viking_Age_Norse:VDP-A5,-0.0302,-0.005,0.0111,-0.0022,-0.0012,-0.0004,0.0011,-0.0003,-0.0043,0.0048,-0.0067,0.0038,-0.0021,0.0006,-0.0004,0.0051,0,0.0001,0.0006,0.0029,0,0.0021,0.003,-0.0029,-0.0006

    Clear story Skitbo, thanks!

    In general the C vs G produces the most insightful results for NW Europeans, seen this:

    Excellent. So far so good......

    But your both models produces a brain breaker for me. Because in the GvsC format the Anglo-Saxon drops.

    G25


    GvsC


    Ok the Viking Norse compensates something but still....



    Ancestral wise I'm a Chauk (Saxon) with a 'pre Germanic' substrate....

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  5. #63
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    Here it is. I remembered it because it was a reply to myself.



    Pg 69 of the Celtic vs Germanic thread that I could only find in Archive.

    It's actually on page 59 of this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    The Celtic vs Germanic PCA is more heavily influenced by genetic drift specific to Ireland and the British Isles, so it stretches out the difference between the Irish and Germanics, and, as a result, doesn't need regional population samples as much as the Global25 to classify most Irish as Irish.

    The fact that you're closer to Icelanders than to Irish in the Global25 just means that the Irish reference set doesn't describe your ancestry as well as it could in the context of global genetic diversity, but it's likely that if I added regional Irish groups to the Global25 then you'd match one or more of these reference sets better than the Icelanders.

    The Celtic vs Germanic PCA isn't better than the Global25. It's actually much less informative overall, but very good at one very specific thing.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....nic-PCA/page59
    Last edited by Jessie; 09-29-2020 at 04:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Clear story Skitbo, thanks!

    In general the C vs G produces the most insightful results for NW Europeans, seen this:

    Excellent. So far so good......

    But your both models produces a brain breaker for me. Because in the GvsC format the Anglo-Saxon drops.

    G25


    GvsC


    Ok the Viking Norse compensates something but still....



    Ancestral wise I'm a Chauk (Saxon) with a 'pre Germanic' substrate....
    The Norse and Saxon samples are close in the C vs G, keep in mind PCAs are all about where each data point is in reference to the others, so if two points are in the same area, it can take the same type of data from two separate points. the C vs G is giving you Saxon+Norse at 47.8 vs England Roman at 52.2 while the G25 is giving you 50.2 Saxon instead. Doesn't look like there's anything mysterious there, aside from how incredibly similar the results are for you on both platforms. That's unexpected.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English (possibly containing some Welsh ancestry) 31.25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, Eastern German 12.5%, Eastern European (Likely Polish possibly including Romanian) 12.5%, French 7.81%, Native American (Saulteaux and Assiniboine) 2.34%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be traced with certainty. With certainty, there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English.

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  9. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    Here it is. I remembered it because it was a reply to myself.



    Pg 69 of the Celtic vs Germanic thread that I could only find in Archive.
    Thanks very much for digging that up: it confirms the answer I gave earlier, about the C vs G being a specialized tool for one thing in particular.
    It would really be cool if one day he could really pile on the Irish references to the G25 so that the insular cluster stood out from the rest of NW Europe.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English (possibly containing some Welsh ancestry) 31.25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, Eastern German 12.5%, Eastern European (Likely Polish possibly including Romanian) 12.5%, French 7.81%, Native American (Saulteaux and Assiniboine) 2.34%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be traced with certainty. With certainty, there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English.

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  11. #66
    Gold Class Member
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    Ethnicity
    Irish
    Nationality
    Australian & Irish
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    M222 (S588)
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    J1c3f

    Ireland Australia Ireland County Tipperary Ireland Munster
    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    The Norse and Saxon samples are close in the C vs G, keep in mind PCAs are all about where each data point is in reference to the others, so if two points are in the same area, it can take the same type of data from two separate points. the C vs G is giving you Saxon+Norse at 47.8 vs England Roman at 52.2 while the G25 is giving you 50.2 Saxon instead. Doesn't look like there's anything mysterious there, aside from how incredibly similar the results are for you on both platforms. That's unexpected.
    I look more drifted in that than even the EBA samples.

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  13. #67
    Silver Class Member
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    British Columbia
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    Canadian Prairies Mix
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    R-Z198 (DF27)
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    T2B-T152C

    Canada England Scotland Germany Poland France
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    I look more drifted in that than even the EBA samples.
    Attachment 39891Attachment 39892

    Red dots = Rathlin
    Bright green = Icelandic Gaels
    Pale green = modern Irish
    Black = Icelanders labelled as mixed
    Blue = Norse icelanders

    You're green triangle.
    Looks like you're a bit more pulled towards Scandinavia than half of the modern Irish?

    Is this what you were referring to in being more drifted than Rathlin or were you referring to something else?
    Last edited by sktibo; 09-28-2020 at 09:05 PM.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English (possibly containing some Welsh ancestry) 31.25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, Eastern German 12.5%, Eastern European (Likely Polish possibly including Romanian) 12.5%, French 7.81%, Native American (Saulteaux and Assiniboine) 2.34%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be traced with certainty. With certainty, there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English.

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  15. #68
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,064
    Sex
    Ethnicity
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    Nationality
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    M222 (S588)
    mtDNA (M)
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    Ireland Australia Ireland County Tipperary Ireland Munster
    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Attachment 39891Attachment 39892

    Red dots = Rathlin
    Bright green = Icelandic Gaels
    Pale green = modern Irish
    Black = Icelanders labelled as mixed
    Blue = Norse icelanders

    You're green triangle.
    Looks like you're a bit more pulled towards Scandinavia than half of the modern Irish?

    Is this what you were referring to in being more drifted than Rathlin or were you referring to something else?
    On this plot that Finn did it looked to me that I was far away from everyone and more drifted than the Ireland EBA. That's what it looks like to me.

    Last edited by Jessie; 09-29-2020 at 04:29 AM.

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  17. #69
    Registered Users
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    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
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    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Per Eurogenes’ Celtic vs Germanic plot: If you rotate the plot 90 degrees right then flip it horizontally (mirror image it), it appears more aligned with geography e.g. Ireland is to the West (left) of England. Norway is to the northeast of England. Dutch and German are to the east (right) of England, France is below/to the south of England. Etc.

    While I can manually make it look like this, I haven’t figured out how to do it using past tool.
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

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  19. #70
    Registered Users
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    3,867
    Sex
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    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
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    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Per Eurogenes’ Celtic vs Germanic plot: If you rotate the plot 90 degrees right then flip it horizontally (mirror image it), it appears more aligned with geography e.g. Ireland is to the West (left) of England. Norway is to the northeast of England. Dutch and German are to the east (right) of England, France is below/to the south of England. Etc.

    While I can manually make it look like this, I haven’t figured out how to do it using past tool.
    Figured out how to make Celtic German graph geographically aligned. Basically you have to reverse PCA 1 and PCA 2 sign values i.e. positive values become negatives. Negatives become positive values. I did it by copying and pasting PCA 1 & 2 columns, multiplying each value by -1 then pasting them back into the Celtic German spreadsheet.

    Then you just reverse the PCA 1 and PCA 2 (x become y, y becomes x)

    Then end result is a Celtic-German graph aligned with geography.
    Below outlined in red is England.
    Ireland is Green and to the left (West)
    Norway is Dark Blue and to the upper right (Northeast of England)
    Central Dutch is Orange and to the right (east of England)
    France is Purple and below England (south of England)

    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 09-29-2020 at 11:55 PM.
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

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