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    Portuguese I1 - How common is it?

    Hi friends, I put my AncestryDNA data into Mosley's calculator and I ended up with I2a2a2~1. https://pastebin.com/hmQWYWvT (My data I put in).

    https://scontent.fijd1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...8f&oe=5F9D8522 (image of mosley results)

    How common is this, is Mosley's accurate, and should I get my Y dna tested somewhere else for more accurate results?

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    Eupedia has I1 in Portugal at 2%, but if the Morley calculator is telling you that you're I2a2a2~1, it's most likely that you're not I1 and actually I2. In that case, Eupedia has percentage of I2/I2a at 1.5% with I2b at 3% - see here https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml

    The Morley tool generally works well and is a nice utility, but uses a reference tree from 2013 and hasn't been updated since, so sometimes it's a bit off but generally it gives the appropriate result. You could try the YSEQ cladefinder which uses the more up to date YFull tree and see if you get the same result https://cladefinder.yseq.net/

    The AncestryDNA test includes a small number of Y-SNPs - in some cases it's possible to get a decent amount of subclades downstream, while for others it won't give much more than a basic haplogroup. To be fair to Ancestry, it's primarily an autosomal DNA test and they don't market their test as including Y-DNA, so think of it as bonus data. As for accurate, I find that when most people say accurate, then actually mean precise. So if the Morley and YSEQ cladefinder both tell you that you're I2, that's likely to be accurate. But if you want more detailed data on which subclade of I2 you fall under, you may need to take a Y-DNA test that's specifically designed for that (which the AncestryDNA test isn't).

    I2 subforum is here https://anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?67-I2-M438
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    Eupedia has I1 in Portugal at 2%, but if the Morley calculator is telling you that you're I2a2a2~1, it's most likely that you're not I1 and actually I2. In that case, Eupedia has percentage of I2/I2a at 1.5% with I2b at 3% - see here https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml

    The Morley tool generally works well and is a nice utility, but uses a reference tree from 2013 and hasn't been updated since, so sometimes it's a bit off but generally it gives the appropriate result. You could try the YSEQ cladefinder which uses the more up to date YFull tree and see if you get the same result https://cladefinder.yseq.net/

    The AncestryDNA test includes a small number of Y-SNPs - in some cases it's possible to get a decent amount of subclades downstream, while for others it won't give much more than a basic haplogroup. To be fair to Ancestry, it's primarily an autosomal DNA test and they don't market their test as including Y-DNA, so think of it as bonus data. As for accurate, I find that when most people say accurate, then actually mean precise. So if the Morley and YSEQ cladefinder both tell you that you're I2, that's likely to be accurate. But if you want more detailed data on which subclade of I2 you fall under, you may need to take a Y-DNA test that's specifically designed for that (which the AncestryDNA test isn't).

    I2 subforum is here https://anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?67-I2-M438
    I've made a brutal mistake. It's actually I1a2a2. Check the photograph in the link. I also get I-S2078 in cladefinder. http://prntscr.com/ushjvu
    Last edited by gabbobler; 10-03-2020 at 03:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gabbobler View Post
    I've made a brutal mistake. It's actually I1a2a2. Check the photograph in the link. I also get I-S2078 in cladefinder. http://prntscr.com/ushjvu
    Ah, ok. I didn't click on any of your links - I generally don't until I can see where those lead. Not accusing of anything malicious, just a bit extra paranoid on my part. Once you get more than 10 posts you can share images on here which is a little easier to follow.

    However, Spruithean says you're positive for several of the SNPs on the I1 level and that's phylogenetically consistent, so you can be fairly sure that you are I1. In that regard, it's accurate, but perhaps not very precise (I find a lot of folks say one when they mean the other). In regard to where you are downstream of I1, that very much depends on what SNPs the Ancestry chip covers. It's not very comprehensive and to be fair to Ancestry, they don't market their test as providing you with this data. So think of it as a bonus. With the S2078+ result, there's less corroborating SNPs in the Ancestry chip at that level, and there are sometimes false positives (I have at least three in my Ancestry data). You should at least be seeing a positive result for Z63 in your test - that's at hg19 position 14401486 on chromosome 24 (what Ancestry labels as the Y chromosome in their raw data file) - if you're Z63+, you'll have T, if you're Z63-, you'll have C. If that matches up, you can be a lot more confident in the S2078+ result. Although as several others have said, if you want further refinement or validation, you're really going to need to take a more suitable Y-DNA test. But at least the Ancestry data has got you to a certain point.
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    Ah, ok. I didn't click on any of your links - I generally don't until I can see where those lead. Not accusing of anything malicious, just a bit extra paranoid on my part. Once you get more than 10 posts you can share images on here which is a little easier to follow.

    However, Spruithean says you're positive for several of the SNPs on the I1 level and that's phylogenetically consistent, so you can be fairly sure that you are I1. In that regard, it's accurate, but perhaps not very precise (I find a lot of folks say one when they mean the other). In regard to where you are downstream of I1, that very much depends on what SNPs the Ancestry chip covers. It's not very comprehensive and to be fair to Ancestry, they don't market their test as providing you with this data. So think of it as a bonus. With the S2078+ result, there's less corroborating SNPs in the Ancestry chip at that level, and there are sometimes false positives (I have at least three in my Ancestry data). You should at least be seeing a positive result for Z63 in your test - that's at hg19 position 14401486 on chromosome 24 (what Ancestry labels as the Y chromosome in their raw data file) - if you're Z63+, you'll have T, if you're Z63-, you'll have C. If that matches up, you can be a lot more confident in the S2078+ result. Although as several others have said, if you want further refinement or validation, you're really going to need to take a more suitable Y-DNA test. But at least the Ancestry data has got you to a certain point.
    I have I1-Z63 as an avaliable panel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gabbobler View Post
    I have I1-Z63 as an avaliable panel.
    Yes, that's what the YSEQ cladefinder is designed to do - direct you to the appropriate panel test at YSEQ, which is the I-Z63 panel. My recommendation was that you should check your AncestryDNA results for Z63 (I checked mine and Z63 is on their chip) - if you have positive results for both Z63 and S2078, you can be fairly confident. If you have positive result for S2078 and a negative result for Z63, you can be less confident in the S2078 result (although still I1).

    The YSEQ panel is a relatively inexpensive way of figuring out where downstream of I-S2078 you are, and YSEQ are a good company for Y-DNA testing. The panel only tests against the known tree and doesn't give you any of your novel variants that tests such as the Big Y, YElite or WGS will do. But all of those latter tests are considerably more expensive. It very much depends on individual interest and resources. Have a read of the options, consider your budget and what you want to find out. If the question is just "am I really I1?" the answer is has most likely already been answered in the affirmative from the AncestryDNA test. If the question is where you fit in below I1 or I-S2078, that's going to need something further than the AncestryDNA test.
    Haplogroup I1 Ancient DNA Samples Map: Hidden Content

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    Where are you from in Portugal? My maternal grandfather had Island Portuguese paternal origin and he was I1. In his case it could be a Visigothic line or remnant of the Dutch/Flemish who were involved in the colonization of the islands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    Where are you from in Portugal? My maternal grandfather had Island Portuguese paternal origin and he was I1. In his case it could be a Visigothic line or remnant of the Dutch/Flemish who were involved in the colonization of the islands.
    Northern Portugal. Montalegre, Vila Real, Tras os Montes to be exact.

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    those damn Vikings got around. my paternal haplogroup is I1 but I have no recent ~250+ years Scandinavian ancestry. Even Sicily has about 5% I1 Y haplogroup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gabbobler View Post
    Hi friends, I put my AncestryDNA data into Mosley's calculator and I ended up with I2a2a2~1. https://pastebin.com/hmQWYWvT (My data I put in).

    https://scontent.fijd1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...8f&oe=5F9D8522 (image of mosley results)

    How common is this, is Mosley's accurate, and should I get my Y dna tested somewhere else for more accurate results?
    Morley predictor uses a rather old ISOGG tree and I1a2a2~1 (I1-L41) wouldn't be accurate. It looks like Morley predicts you to be I1-M253 right now. If you're interested in really figuring out which haplogroup your Y-chromosome falls under I would recommend Y-DNA testing at YSEQ or FTDNA, etc.

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