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Thread: What are some widespread Y-DNA subclades that have a shallow TMRCA?

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    What are some widespread Y-DNA subclades that have a shallow TMRCA?

    For example E-M183 has a TMRCA of around 2700 BP, according to Y-Full. Despite that it is extremely widespread, but what are other examples of something similar, as in sub-clades that trace back to just the iron age despite being very prevalent?
    Last edited by Granary; 10-06-2020 at 06:09 PM.

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    Interesting, looking for resources about the TMRCA of E-M183 I found these two:
    Whole Y-chromosome sequences reveal an extremely recent origin of the most common North African paternal lineage E-M183 (M81)

    Yfull has E-M81 (age: 4752 ybp) but has the main branch E-CTS4236 more recent at (age: 2709 ybp).
    Any other recent independent sources for E-M183?

    (Ed.) Sorry, there's already this enormous thread about E-M183:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....igin-of-E-M183
    Last edited by pmokeefe; 10-06-2020 at 06:31 PM.
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    Similarly, J-Y10887/FGC1695 has a TMRCA of just ~3,000ybp and is very prevalent among Arabs. Perhaps some Iron Age dynamics led to power consolidation(?)
    "To know nothing of what happened before you were born is to remain forever a child" ― Marcus Tullius Cicero

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    The more intriguing fact about E-M183 is not just that it's so widespread with a relatively recent TMRCA but also that it's widespread among several ethnicities.
    Last edited by Helves; 10-06-2020 at 07:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbdoNumen View Post
    Similarly, J-Y10887/FGC1695 has a TMRCA of just ~3,000ybp and is very prevalent among Arabs. Perhaps some Iron Age dynamics led to power consolidation(?)
    Do you have some figures indicating how prevalent it is and in which populations?
    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    The more intruiging fact about E-M183 is not just that it's so widespread with a relatively recent TMRCA but also that it's widespread among several ethnicities.
    Well I'd say what we know from written sources explains well how E-M183 spread outside the Maghreb, after all outside Iberia and the Maghreb it doesn't reach frequencies of much above 5% I believe.

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    There are many "Slavic" Y-DNA subclades that are relatively young and at the same time very common and quite widely distributed.

    For example, the TMRCA age for I2a-Y3120 is only 2100 years (according to YFull), yet there are estimated 25 mln people belonging to this subclade, with most of them living in Eastern Europe (mostly Eastern Slavs), though the highest frequency of nearly 50% is found in Bosnia.
    Another example is R1a-L1029 with about 15 mln people and very similar TMRCA age of 2100 years.
    Both these subclades have been found in some of the recently published Medieval "Viking" samples from different locations (Denmark, Sweden, Russia and Ukraine) and they were all Slavic-like (or North Slavic-like) autosomally.

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    J1-FGC12 presence is well attested all over in the Arabian peninsula, Yemen, Iraq, Egypt, Sudan, Jordan, Palestine, Iran and Lebanon with a TMRCA of 3,100 years.
    Though it obviously doesn't compare with the spread and frequency of E-M183, with little to no historical record to justify the overwhelming spread in north Africa and other places.

    Edit: Just found out AbdoNumen has mentioned it before me. My apologies!
    Last edited by Shanck; 10-06-2020 at 07:48 PM.

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    A quick sweep of the literature from major publishers.

    C
    Phylogeography of the Y‐chromosome haplogroup C in northern Eurasia

    C2*
    Whole-sequence analysis indicates that the Y chromosome C2*-Star Cluster traces back to ordinary Mongols, rather than Genghis Khan

    C2a1a1b1a/F3830 and C2b1b/F845
    Ancient DNA reveals two paternal lineages C2a1a1b1a/F3830 and C2b1b/F845 in past nomadic peoples distributed on the Mongolian Plateau


    C2a‐M86
    Paternal origin of Tungusic‐speaking populations: Insights from the updated phylogenetic tree of Y‐chromosome haplogroup C2a‐M86

    C2b-F1067
    Phylogenetic analysis of the Y-chromosome haplogroup C2b-F1067, a dominant paternal lineage in Eastern Eurasia

    C2b1a1b1-F1756
    Molecular genealogy of Tusi Lu’s family reveals their paternal relationship with Jochi, Genghis Khan’s eldest son

    C2b1a3a1-F3796
    Y-chromosome evidence confirmed the Kerei-Abakh origin of Aksay Kazakhs

    C2c1a1a1-M407
    Whole sequence analysis indicates a recent southern origin of Mongolian Y-chromosome C2c1a1a1-M407

    C3*-F3918
    The Y-chromosome haplogroup C3*-F3918, likely attributed to the Mongol Empire, can be traced to a 2500-year-old nomadic group

    C3b-F1756
    Phylogeny of Y-chromosome haplogroup C3b-F1756, an important paternal lineage in Altaic-speaking populations

    C3b1a3a2-F8951
    Genetic trail for the early migrations of Aisin Gioro, the imperial house of the Qing dynasty

    C3b1a3a2-F8951
    Relating Clans Ao and Aisin Gioro from northeast China by whole Y-chromosome sequencing

    C3c1b-F6379
    Y-chromosomal analysis of clan structure of Kalmyks, the only European Mongol people, and their relationship to Oirat-Mongols of Inner Asia

    E-M183
    Whole Y-chromosome sequences reveal an extremely recent origin of the most common North African paternal lineage E-M183 (M81)


    G1
    Deep phylogenetic analysis of haplogroup G1 provides estimates of SNP and STR mutation rates on the human Y-chromosome and reveals migrations of Iranic speakers

    H1a1a4b2
    Sex‑biased patterns shaped the genetic history of Roma

    J
    A finely resolved phylogeny of Y chromosome Hg J illuminates the processes of Phoenician and Greek colonizations in the Mediterranean

    O
    Paternal gene pool of Malays in Southeast Asia and its applications for the early expansion of Austronesians

    O-F492
    Inferring the history of surname Ye based on Y chromosome high-resolution genotyping and sequencing data

    O1b1a1a* [O-M95*] and O2a* [O-M324*]
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    O3a2b2-N6
    Phylogeography of Y-chromosome haplogroup O3a2b2-N6 reveals
    patrilineal traces of Austronesian populations on the eastern coastal regions of Asia


    Q
    Dispersals of the Siberian Y-chromosome haplogroup Q in Eurasia

    Q1a1a-M120
    Phylogeography of Y-chromosome haplogroup Q1a1a-M120, a paternal lineage
    connecting populations in Siberia and East Asia


    R1b-DF27
    Analysis of the R1b-DF27 haplogroup shows that a large fraction of Iberian Y-chromosome lineages originated recently in situ

    R-Z2125
    Determination of the phylogenetic origins of the Árpád Dynasty based on Y chromosome sequencing of Béla the Third

    Punctuated bursts in human male demography inferred from 1,244 worldwide Y-chromosome sequences

    Bursts of male-lineage expansions

    Large-scale recent expansion of European patrilineages shown by population resequencing

    A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals
    Last edited by pmokeefe; 10-07-2020 at 12:27 AM.
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    Widespread Y-DNA subclades that have a shallow TMRCA had a technological, economic, social and political edge or good advantages moving into new frontiers. Now try to find Y-DNA subclades that have a deep TMRCA in old core areas like Eastern Anatolia, Northern Iran or the SE Asian origin for present-day non-African human Y chromosomes where the competition has always been tough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanck View Post
    J1-FGC12 presence is well attested all over in the Arabian peninsula, Yemen, Iraq, Egypt, Sudan, Jordan, Palestine, Iran and Lebanon with a TMRCA of 3,100 years.
    Though it obviously doesn't compare with the spread and frequency of E-M183, with little to no historical record to justify the overwhelming spread in north Africa and other places.

    Edit: Just found out AbdoNumen has mentioned it before me. My apologies!
    How frequent is J-FGC12 in Iran?

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