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Thread: What is the Scottish component composed of?

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggiemercer View Post
    Half my mother's family is Scots-Irish from Ulster, on her father's side, ancestrally from Renfrewshire. They cluster closest to the Irish but lean Welsh due to the migration from SW Scotland (my family was one of those migrants).
    Okay, I see, so are you basing that off of histories and things you have read?

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     Reggiemercer (10-29-2020)

  3. #162
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    Actually, I was just reading this from a different thread: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/38/19064

    image_2020-10-28_231155.png

    You can see how each population is related on that Ireland - England - Norway gradient, with the northern Irish sitting between Ireland, Scotland and England. There's also some fun snippets like this:

    The northeast of Scotland is dominated by 2 large clusters whose ancestry originates from the main administrative regions of the area, Tayside-Fife and Aberdeenshire. It also includes the small cluster Buchan-Moray which exhibits characteristics of isolation: high fixation indices and high levels of short and long runs of homozygosity (ROH), with a gene flow barrier in EEMS.

    As if you needed research to tell the British islanders that we're inbred

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  5. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggiemercer View Post
    Actually, I was just reading this from a different thread: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/38/19064

    image_2020-10-28_231155.png

    You can see how each population is related on that Ireland - England - Norway gradient, with the northern Irish sitting between Scotland and England. There's also some fun snippets like this:

    The northeast of Scotland is dominated by 2 large clusters whose ancestry originates from the main administrative regions of the area, Tayside-Fife and Aberdeenshire. It also includes the small cluster Buchan-Moray which exhibits characteristics of isolation: high fixation indices and high levels of short and long runs of homozygosity (ROH), with a gene flow barrier in EEMS.

    As if you needed research to tell the British islanders that we're inbred
    If you were referencing the GLSI study how did you get the idea that lowlanders are welsh-leaning

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  7. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    If you were referencing the GLSI study how did you get the idea that lowlanders are welsh-leaning
    Yeah you're right, I should have said Brittonic instead of Welsh. Scots-Irish came from southwestern Scotland, which was Brittonic (Cumbrian) speaking like Welsh.
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  9. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggiemercer View Post
    Scotland has multiple overlapping ethnicities. The Hebrides and Argyll are basically Irish, the northeastern highlands + islands are Pictish (related to Welsh) with Norse influence and the lowlands are mixed Anglo-Picts. And they're all so closely related genetically that it almost becomes arbitrary to classify them according to DNA. If a highland Scot or a Norse Gael male line marries into English families, they will become more English autosomally but that doesn't disqualify them from being Scottish paternally or culturally. The same logic goes vice-versa. The only reason some of the highlands and islanders stand out as distinct is because they are geographically and therefore genetically isolated compared to the much more populous lowlands. "Highland" Scots only make up 4.4% of the actual population of Scotland (235,830 out of 5.4 million) so if you are broadly Scottish in ancestry, odds are you will have lots more lowland ancestry than highland ancestry just based on the demographics alone.
    Interesting you say about Welsh. A lot of my matches on ancestry score Welsh. I wonder if thatís the reason.

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  11. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    Interesting you say about Welsh. A lot of my matches on ancestry score Welsh. I wonder if that’s the reason.
    Whats your background, is it homogenously Ulster-Scot? I'm trying to figure out if my dad's Scottish ancestry (50+%) comes from Brittany or mainland Scotland. The Bretons are Brittonic speakers like the Welsh and Cumbrians were so it would make sense that they cluster closer to today's lowland Scots than the Irish. I'm also trying to tease out my 18-26% "England and NWE" ancestry, because a significant portion of that has to be northern French. The only properly English ancestry I can find comes from my grandmother's mother's side, but they were also part Welsh so who knows what the actual %s are.

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  13. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggiemercer View Post
    Whats your background, is it homogenously Ulster-Scot? I'm trying to figure out if my dad's Scottish ancestry (50+%) comes from Brittany or mainland Scotland. The Bretons are Brittonic speakers like the Welsh and Cumbrians were so it would make sense that they cluster closer to today's lowland Scots than the Irish. I'm also trying to tease out my 18-26% "England and NWE" ancestry, because a significant portion of that has to be northern French. The only properly English ancestry I can find comes from my grandmother's mother's side, but they were also part Welsh so who knows what the actual %s are.
    No I am about 40% Ulster Scots. But a lot of my matches score 4-10% Welsh, including my mum.

  14. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    No I am about 40% Ulster Scots. But a lot of my matches score 4-10% Welsh, including my mum.
    I wonder how much Welsh and Scottish overlap in Ancestry tests. I have a strong suspicion that Welsh ancestry seems so distinct because of genetic drift, or possibly because of Roman era ancestry. Its plausible that a number of Roman citizens in the cities would have fled west with the Welsh into Wales after the Anglo-Saxon conquest and gradually became assimilated over time. Its also possible that Norwegian viking ancestry is tugging both the Irish and Scottish away from Wales, and that the Welsh portion of contemporary English ancestry gets turned into "Scottish" due to that northeastern genetic influence.

    image_2020-10-29_133216.png

    Here's my crude approximation for the "pulls" of each ethnic group from that previous study I linked. As you can see, southern Welsh makes sense as its closely related to nearby English communities but also tugging strongly towards Celtic. Northern Welsh is way off on its own but I guess thats due to genetic drift and/or endogamy.

    As a comparison, these are my before-and-after results from Ancestry's most recent update.

    Before: image_2020-10-29_134310.png

    After: image_2020-10-29_134544.png

    Scotland ranges from 47-65% and England ranges from 18-26%, with Wales and Ireland at 0 to 16% confidence and France at 0 to 10%.

    You know, they might just dump any generic "Celtoid" ancestry that they can't assign anywhere else into the Scottish category. Ancestry even highlights western Brittany in the Scotland category, which probably explains a lot of my "Scottish" ancestry.
    Last edited by Reggiemercer; 10-29-2020 at 06:00 PM.

  15. #169
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    Maybe the Ulster Scots share more of a link with the Irish than the Welsh. I am not seeing the connection.

    Though the Welsh numbers are odd.
    Last edited by Nqp15hhu; 10-29-2020 at 06:36 PM.

  16. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggiemercer View Post
    Yeah you're right, I should have said Brittonic instead of Welsh. Scots-Irish came from southwestern Scotland, which was Brittonic (Cumbrian) speaking like Welsh.
    I think my Scottish results are Brittonic Celts.

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