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Thread: Query regarding Basque and British/Ashkenazi grandfather

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    Question Query regarding Basque and British/Ashkenazi grandfather

    Hi friends,

    This section seems the most appropriate place to post this question, as all of you are more knowledgeable than me in Spanish history.

    To start with, my grandfather's known ancestry is Scottish, English and Ashkenazi. On myOrigins V3 he has 3% Basque. My mother gets 2% Basque. My sister and I don't get any. When the update came along I ignored it, but now I'm curious so I've done some quick investigating.

    Grandfather's V3

    Central Europe - 42%
    Great Britain - 41%
    Scandinavia - 9%
    Ashkenazi Jewish - 5%
    Basque - 3%
    Greece & Balkans - <1%

    On most calculators he gets between 5-10% Basque on average. I've attempted to model him and myself with Basque Spanish to see what comes up.

    Scaled with penalty:

    Grandfather

    Sample: Balkan Kiwi ► BKGrandfather
    Fit: 1.4144
    Results: Scottish 60
    English 33
    Basque Spanish 4.5
    Ashkenazi Poland 2.5


    Me

    Sample: Balkan Kiwi ► BalkanKiwi
    Fit: 0.9213
    Results: Irish 51.5
    Scottish 28
    Croatian 12.5
    Lebanese Christian 4
    Basque Spanish 3
    Papuan 1


    I'm currently not overly active on the forum, so I'm not sure with the V3 update if Basque has become more common among those with British ancestry. I know if its real, its likely not from my father's side, as he only gets 1% at the most when modelling.

    Is Basque DNA distinct enough that if it shows up often enough, it's likely an indicator of minor ancestry from the area? If so, is it possible its connected to the Ashkenazi, or would it be more associated with Sephardic Jews? Or, is it not real, and is simply just acting as a proxy for something else?

    EDIT:

    G25 Modern Averages scaled for grandfather:

    Distance: 2.1387% / 0.02138708
    69.4 Orcadian
    15.6 Shetlandic
    8.8 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
    5.0 Spanish_Asturias

    0.8 Yemenite_Jew
    0.2 Gupta
    0.2 Koinanbe
    Last edited by BalkanKiwi; 10-18-2020 at 01:16 AM.
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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    Cornwall New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by BalkanKiwi View Post
    Hi friends,

    This section seems the most appropriate place to post this question, as all of you are more knowledgeable than me in Spanish history.

    To start with, my grandfather's known ancestry is Scottish, English and Ashkenazi. On myOrigins V3 he has 3% Basque. My mother gets 2% Basque. My sister and I don't get any. When the update came along I ignored it, but now I'm curious so I've done some quick investigating.

    Grandfather's V3

    Central Europe - 42%
    Great Britain - 41%
    Scandinavia - 9%
    Ashkenazi Jewish - 5%
    Basque - 3%
    Greece & Balkans - <1%

    On various calculators he gets 2-3% Basque. I've attempted to model him and myself with Basque Spanish to see what comes up.

    Scaled with penalty:

    Grandfather

    Sample: Balkan Kiwi ► BKGrandfather
    Fit: 1.4144
    Results: Scottish 60
    English 33
    Basque Spanish 4.5
    Ashkenazi Poland 2.5


    Me

    Sample: Balkan Kiwi ► BalkanKiwi
    Fit: 0.9213
    Results: Irish 51.5
    Scottish 28
    Croatian 12.5
    Lebanese Christian 4
    Basque Spanish 3
    Papuan 1


    I'm currently not overly active on the forum, so I'm not sure with the V3 update if Basque has become more common among those with British ancestry. I know if its real, its likely not from my father's side, as he only gets 1% at the most when modelling.

    Is Basque DNA distinct enough that if it shows up often enough, it's likely an indicator of minor ancestry from the area? If so, is it possible its connected to the Ashkenazi, or would it be more associated with Sephardic Jews? Or, is it not real, and is simply just acting as a proxy for something else?
    I often get Basque on many calculators and if I don't get Basque I get Iberian and my paper trail is British.

    Where did you get the penalty result for yourself and your grandfather, what tool did you use?

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    Quote Originally Posted by timberwolf View Post
    I often get Basque on many calculators and if I don't get Basque I get Iberian and my paper trail is British.

    Where did you get the penalty result for yourself and your grandfather, what tool did you use?
    Interesting. I use GenoPlot. I forgot to add the G25 Modern Averages results for my grandfather, which I've added to the first post.

    I haven't seen your myOrigins V3 results. Has it given you/any family members Basque at all? As I said, perhaps this is just a normal thing among those with British ancestry.
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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    With their update no. I got BI 68 Ireland 22 Iberian 7 and Central Europe 3

    G25 unscaled and no penalty

    Target: Timberwolf
    Distance: 0.2589% / 0.00258868
    60.2 Irish
    11.4 Belgian
    8.8 Dutch
    6.4 Welsh
    5.0 Basque_Spanish
    4.6 Basque_French
    2.6 German
    0.4 Mlabri
    0.4 Swedish
    0.2 Mbuti

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    With G25 Scaled I still get Basque at 0.5x

    Target: Timberwolf_scaled
    Distance: 1.6927% / 0.01692670 | ADC: 0.5x
    87.6 English_Cornwall
    9.0 Irish
    3.4 Basque_French

    Target: Timberwolf_scaled
    Distance: 1.6099% / 0.01609864 | ADC: 0.25x
    51.6 English_Cornwall
    35.0 Irish
    10.4 Basque_French
    1.8 Shetlandic
    1.2 French_Seine-Maritime

    Target: Timberwolf_scaled
    Distance: 1.5800% / 0.01579953
    31.6 Irish
    26.2 English_Cornwall
    17.0 Basque_French
    15.2 Shetlandic
    9.8 Icelandic
    0.2 Igorot

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    Quote Originally Posted by timberwolf View Post
    With G25 Scaled I still get Basque at 0.5x

    Target: Timberwolf_scaled
    Distance: 1.6927% / 0.01692670 | ADC: 0.5x
    87.6 English_Cornwall
    9.0 Irish
    3.4 Basque_French

    Target: Timberwolf_scaled
    Distance: 1.6099% / 0.01609864 | ADC: 0.25x
    51.6 English_Cornwall
    35.0 Irish
    10.4 Basque_French
    1.8 Shetlandic
    1.2 French_Seine-Maritime

    Target: Timberwolf_scaled
    Distance: 1.5800% / 0.01579953
    31.6 Irish
    26.2 English_Cornwall
    17.0 Basque_French
    15.2 Shetlandic
    9.8 Icelandic
    0.2 Igorot
    So we have something to compare to. I assume Basque Spanish and Basque French are somewhat genetically similar?

    Grandfather scaled:

    Distance: 2.1525% / 0.02152476 | ADC: 0.25x
    79.8 Orcadian
    11.2 Spanish_Asturias
    5.8 Shetlandic
    2.0 Scottish
    1.2 Spanish_Pais_Vasco

    Distance: 2.2035% / 0.02203475 | ADC: 0.5x
    81.8 Orcadian
    11.2 English_Cornwall
    7.0 Spanish_Asturias
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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    Cornwall New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by BalkanKiwi View Post
    So we have something to compare to. I assume Basque Spanish and Basque French are somewhat genetically similar?

    Grandfather scaled:

    Distance: 2.1525% / 0.02152476 | ADC: 0.25x
    79.8 Orcadian
    11.2 Spanish_Asturias
    5.8 Shetlandic
    2.0 Scottish
    1.2 Spanish_Pais_Vasco

    Distance: 2.2035% / 0.02203475 | ADC: 0.5x
    81.8 Orcadian
    11.2 English_Cornwall
    7.0 Spanish_Asturias
    Yeah, I would not imagine there would be significant differences between Basques in France and Spain.

    I always say that any model that gives me about 50% Cornish is a really good model for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timberwolf View Post
    Yeah, I would not imagine there would be significant differences between Basques in France and Spain.

    I always say that any model that gives me about 50% Cornish is a really good model for me.
    The ADC: 0.25x for you is a pretty good fit then!
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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    Hi BalkanKiwi!!!

    The Basque component in both samples is similar. Basque spanish and Basque french are very closer geneticaly.

    Your ancestor is Ashkenazi, don't you? Where is he/she from? After 1492 and 1496, some Sepharadim Jewish mírate to East Europe and mixed with Ashkenazim communities. Maybe it could be a posibility, if we take in consideration you score spanish in some calculators.

    Also we can consider another hypothesis, as spanish/Basque results could be ancient components. People of peninsular Bell Beakers cultures for example migrated to British Islands and Ireland.

    Do you have spanish matches? Have you could triangulate in some segment without pile up?
    Last edited by rober_tce; 10-18-2020 at 04:30 AM.
    23andMe: 99.4% Spanish & Portuguese, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 0.3% Trace Ancestry (0.3% Nigerian)

    My Heritage: 91.5% Iberian, 3.6% Ashkenazi Jewish, 2.7% Middle East, 2.2% Irish, Sccotish and Welsh

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    Quote Originally Posted by rober_tce View Post
    Hi BalkanKiwi!!!

    The Basque component in both samples is similar. Basque spanish and Basque french are very closer geneticaly.

    Your ancestor is Ashkenazi, don't you? Where is he/she from? After 1492 and 1496, some Sepharadim Jewish mírate to East Europe and mixed with Ashkenazim communities. Maybe it could be a posibility, if we take in consideration you score spanish in some calculators.

    Also we can consider another hypothesis, as spanish/Basque results could be ancient components. People of peninsular Bell Beakers cultures for example migrated to British Islands and Ireland.

    Do you have spanish matches? Have you could triangulate in some segment without pile up?
    Hi rober_tce,

    Thanks for the reply. On my Ashkenazi line, I can only go back as far as my 3rd great grandfather, who was born in Warsaw, Poland. For that reason alone, I don't know how plausible it would be for Jews from Eastern Europe to have Basque ancestry (unless, as you say, Sephardic Jews mixed, however he's never had Sephardic Jewish come up on a test). The other option is as you say, from ancient times.

    Regarding matches, my grandfather has 34 Spanish matches on MyHeritage. Many of these matches have certain amounts of Ashkenazi ancestry, but there's a few that don't score any Ashkenazi and have mostly Iberian. There's a few matches with large amounts of Ashkenazi and Iberian as well, which makes it tricky. Most of the Spanish matches have only Spanish surnames listed under "Ancestral places", however I guess it seems Spain had a large influx of Ashkenazi Jews? I would assume its possible many of these Spanish matches have Ashkenazi ancestors they don't know about.
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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