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Thread: U5b1d1b

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus191 View Post
    My own line is U5b1d and traces not too far from Cheddar, to the Dorset-Hampshire border in the 18th c.
    It should be possible to identify a more specific subclade of U5b1d. If you tested at 23andMe you can upload your results to James Lick's mthap webtool to see if any extra mutations were found that identify a more specific subclade.

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     Rufus191 (04-20-2021)

  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    It should be possible to identify a more specific subclade of U5b1d. If you tested at 23andMe you can upload your results to James Lick's mthap webtool to see if any extra mutations were found that identify a more specific subclade.
    Yes I did this a few days ago

    1) U5b1d1

    Defining Markers for haplogroup U5b1d1:
    HVR2: 73G 150T 263G
    CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3197C 4769G 5437T 5656G 7028T 7768G 8860G 9477A 11467G 11719A 12308G 12372A 13617C 14182C 14766T 15326G 15721C
    HVR1: 16192T 16270T

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup U5b1d1 (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 11467G 12308G 12372A ⇨ U ⇨ 16192T 16270T ⇨ U5 ⇨ 3197C 9477A 13617C ⇨ U5a'b ⇨ 150T 7768G 14182C ⇨ U5b ⇨ 5656G ⇨ U5b1 ⇨ 5437T ⇨ U5b1d ⇨ 15721C ⇨ U5b1d1 ⇨ 65D 191D 299D 459D 2074I 2156D 2405D 3307D 4317I 5537D 5752D 6689T 7471D 8281D 8286D 14482T

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(16): 73G 263G 1438G 2706G 3197C 5656G 7028T 8860G 9477A 11467G 11719A 12308G 12372A 13617C 14182C 15721C
    Extras(16): 65D 191D 299D 459D 2074I 2156D 2405D 3307D 4317I 5537D 5752D 6689T 7471D 8281D 8286D 14482T
    No-Calls(2): 5437T 16270T
    Untested(7): 150 750 4769 7768 14766 15326 16192

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    It should be possible to identify a more specific subclade of U5b1d. If you tested at 23andMe you can upload your results to James Lick's mthap webtool to see if any extra mutations were found that identify a more specific subclade.
    I am not sure if the 23andme data is sufficient for the U5 project, but if it is, my furthest traced ancestor is Elizabeth Warne b. abt 1748 in Ringwood, Hampshire. I guess I may be an unknown new subclade as I seem to have a lot of extras not listed on any current U5b1d1 subclade?

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus191 View Post
    I am not sure if the 23andme data is sufficient for the U5 project, but if it is, my furthest traced ancestor is Elizabeth Warne b. abt 1748 in Ringwood, Hampshire. I guess I may be an unknown new subclade as I seem to have a lot of extras not listed on any current U5b1d1 subclade?
    Most of the extras listed are deletions which probably reflect the incomplete 23adnMe results. The one significant extra is 14482T, and this is unique among the existing U5b1d1 test results. U5b1d1 has three named subclades, and you can see the defining mutations for each subclade at Phylotree. You would need to test the full sequence to see if you are in one of the named subclades.

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     Rufus191 (04-21-2021)

  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    Most of the extras listed are deletions which probably reflect the incomplete 23adnMe results. The one significant extra is 14482T, and this is unique among the existing U5b1d1 test results. U5b1d1 has three named subclades, and you can see the defining mutations for each subclade at Phylotree. You would need to test the full sequence to see if you are in one of the named subclades.
    Thanks for having a look at my results. I am considering getting a FTDNA test (it seems to be on sale until the 25th).

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus191 View Post
    Thanks for having a look at my results. I am considering getting a FTDNA test (it seems to be on sale until the 25th).
    mtDNA has a slow average mutation rate, so matches might share a most recent common maternal ancestor between 1 to more than 100 generations ago, so the results might not be very useful for genealogy, but in some rare cases they are useful, especially for confirming a suspected maternal line relationship. But it's still fun finding out exactly where you fit in the mtDNA Phylotree.

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     corner (04-23-2021)

  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    mtDNA has a slow average mutation rate, so matches might share a most recent common maternal ancestor between 1 to more than 100 generations ago, so the results might not be very useful for genealogy, but in some rare cases they are useful, especially for confirming a suspected maternal line relationship. But it's still fun finding out exactly where you fit in the mtDNA Phylotree.
    Oh yes I'm aware . I guess I find it more interesting as U5b1d seems a lot more unusual according to 23andme - 1 in 790 of 23andme customers, rather than U5a1a1 which is supposedly 1 in 100 of 23andme customers. It would be interesting to know if we knew what the 23andme stats were for all haplogroups, maybe someone has put that together? I know there are tables by country on eupedia for MTDNA haplogroups, but I don't know how accurate they are or what data they are based on?

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...requency.shtml

    I wonder if it is possible to find more detailed subclade information for Cheddar Man? I think someone uploaded his data to GEDMATCH but I am not sure you can get all the mutations from that
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post621302

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     corner (04-23-2021)

  12. #18
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    U5b1d1c

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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    mtDNA has a slow average mutation rate, so matches might share a most recent common maternal ancestor between 1 to more than 100 generations ago, so the results might not be very useful for genealogy, but in some rare cases they are useful, especially for confirming a suspected maternal line relationship. But it's still fun finding out exactly where you fit in the mtDNA Phylotree.
    It is and it's good to find this interesting thread. I gather from a Living DNA test recently that my maternal line is U5b1d1c. Their information says it is found in highest frequency among the Scandinavian Saami and the coverage map shows that concentration in the far north of Europe.

    Saami 47%
    Finland 18%
    Basque 15.4%
    France 2.2%
    In 10th place is England 1.4%

    Their narrative suggests it spent the Ice Age in the Franco-Cantabrian refugia and followed the retreating ice sheets northwards.

  13. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by corner View Post
    It is and it's good to find this interesting thread. I gather from a Living DNA test recently that my maternal line is U5b1d1c. Their information says it is found in highest frequency among the Scandinavian Saami and the coverage map shows that concentration in the far north of Europe.

    Saami 47%
    Finland 18%
    Basque 15.4%
    France 2.2%
    In 10th place is England 1.4%

    Their narrative suggests it spent the Ice Age in the Franco-Cantabrian refugia and followed the retreating ice sheets northwards.
    I wouldn't necessarily rely on what the commercial DNA sites say for the most accurate data. Although it is true the Saami have the highest % of U5 in the whole world, their subclade is almost exclusively U5b1b1a

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...html#subclades
    https://www.academia.edu/6212881/Ori...roup_U5_mtDNA_

    It would be interesting to know if anyone has tried to map out the various U5 subclades in a map of the British Isles. It seems possible to me that U5a1a1 came over with Indo European Yamnaya migrations, and the U5b1d and subclades may be remnants of the female lines of the Neolithic farmers, who maybe in turn took some of those females from the mesolithic hunter gatherer "Cheddar Man" populations. Maybe you might see U5b1d and subclades in the more 'celtic ' areas of the British Isles where there was slightly less Anglo Saxon dominance i.e. in the far west of England, northern areas, Wales, north and west Scotland, west and north west Ireland etc.

  14. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus191 View Post
    I wouldn't necessarily rely on what the commercial DNA sites say for the most accurate data. Although it is true the Saami have the highest % of U5 in the whole world, their subclade is almost exclusively U5b1b1a

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...html#subclades
    https://www.academia.edu/6212881/Ori...roup_U5_mtDNA_

    It would be interesting to know if anyone has tried to map out the various U5 subclades in a map of the British Isles. It seems possible to me that U5a1a1 came over with Indo European Yamnaya migrations, and the U5b1d and subclades may be remnants of the female lines of the Neolithic farmers, who maybe in turn took some of those females from the mesolithic hunter gatherer "Cheddar Man" populations. Maybe you might see U5b1d and subclades in the more 'celtic ' areas of the British Isles where there was slightly less Anglo Saxon dominance i.e. in the far west of England, northern areas, Wales, north and west Scotland, west and north west Ireland etc.
    Yes, it looks like a broad brush description. I haven't found much about U5b1d1c specifically. FTDNA Haplotree has 16 kits or 33.33% from England, 9 kits or 18.75% Ireland, 2 from Wales, 1 each from Germany, Slovakia, Scotland, France, Hungary.

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     GailT (04-24-2021),  Rufus191 (04-23-2021)

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