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Thread: BAM Files is Available (A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia's Eastern )

  1. #121
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    Looking quickly at the early Xiongnu from this study and the four (DA43, DA45, DA38, DA41) from a previous study, I noticed that DA43 and DA45 score a lot of Han-related ancestry. These two were buried in far southern Mongolia near the China border. One of the new samples, JAG001, has no West Eurasian ancestry and is located toward the eastern end of Mongolia. The rest of the early samples are from northern Mongolia and nearly all show a lot of steppe and also some Iran ancestry. Only two (SKT004 and SKT007) are devoid of steppe or Iran input.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Looking quickly at the early Xiongnu from this study and the four (DA43, DA45, DA38, DA41) from a previous study, I noticed that DA43 and DA45 score a lot of Han-related ancestry. These two were buried in far southern Mongolia near the China border. One of the new samples, JAG001, has no West Eurasian ancestry and is located toward the eastern end of Mongolia. The rest of the early samples are from northern Mongolia and nearly all show a lot of steppe and also some Iran ancestry. Only two (SKT004 and SKT007) are devoid of steppe or Iran input.
    The Y-dna of these samples are also rather rare if we look at the Y-dna of the Xiongnu samples provided in this study. Its only a handful of samples which had y-dna O2 for example.

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    Also, is DSKC ancestry present amongst these Xiongnu samples (particularly the ones with Q1a2) or is it a bit of a dead end BA population?

    Or is that hard to determine due to the overlapping components between of Baikal_BA and Steppe_mlba?

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    I'm seeing if DSKC contributed to the Chandman_IA group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rohlfsen View Post
    I'm seeing if DSKC contributed to the Chandman_IA group.
    Cool!

    The thing about the DSKC samples is that they derive 2/3rds of their ancestry and most of their Y-dna from the region which is generally considered to be the Proto-Yeniseian homeland, thst east of the Altai but west of the Baikal region. The other 1/3 is Steppe_MLBA ancestry according to this article.

    The DSKC people were pastoralists with horses, and they had those deer art forms we see with the Scytho-Siberian material cultures. But the Deer art is also very prevalent with the Xiongnu.

    It is quite clear that the ancestors of Scythians and the ancestors of the DSKC had significant interactions with each other, leading to bilateral geneflows as well as culture and ideas going both ways.

    Anyways, there is quite some evidence that suggests that the Xiongnu had a Yeniseian elite or what I think is more fitting, a core Yeniseian component amongst their founders (as I doubt the elite were largely mono-ethnic).

    These samples seem as good as any candidates for Early Yeniseian speaking horse pastoralists in Mongolia. They also lived along the Eastern Altay and if you follow that mountain route you eventually end up in the gobi desert, which is where the Xiongnu were first attested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperAxe View Post
    Cool!



    These samples seem as good as any candidates for Early Yeniseian speaking horse pastoralists in Mongolia. They also lived along the Eastern Altay and if you follow that mountain route you eventually end up in the gobi desert, which is where the Xiongnu were first attested.
    I have a suspicion that this route in the early Neolithic N-Tat passed from Eastern China to Siberia

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    left pops:
    Mongolia_DSKC
    Sintashta
    Gonur1_BA
    West_Siberia_N
    Fofonovo_EN

    right pops:
    Chimp
    Ust_Ishim
    Brazil_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
    Yana
    Iron_Gates_HG
    EHG
    Taiwan_Hanben
    Levant_N
    IBM
    Barcin_N
    CHG
    Ganj_Dareh_N
    Boisman_MN
    Afanasievo
    Globular_Amphora

    numsnps used: 577630

    best coefficients: 0.461 0.073 0.062 0.404
    std. errors: 0.028 0.021 0.019 0.011

    fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
    0000 0 11 10.591 0.478173 0.461 0.073 0.062 0.404

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  11. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    I have a suspicion that this route in the early Neolithic N-Tat passed from Eastern China to Siberia
    The Altai_MLBA cline which the DSKC samples belong, are modeled as a two way mixture between Sintashta and Khovsgol_LBA in this paper.

    From Jeong et al. (2018), all of the Khovsgol_LBA samples belonged to Y-haplogroup Q1a except for two, an R1a outlier ARS026 and ARS003 with Y-haplogroup N-M178 and Mt-haplogroup U5a2d1. This is the only sample with a "western" Mt-haplogroup, the rest of the samples belonged to Siberian A, B, C, D and G although, he is apparently not more western shifted than other Khovsgol samples.

    Of course in this paper ARS003 is also included, listed as a part of the DSKC but with the addition of BER002 which is also N-Tat.

    Depending on the subclade this N may have been local or from a west-east back migration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelto View Post
    The Altai_MLBA cline which the DSKC samples belong, are modeled as a two way mixture between Sintashta and Khovsgol_LBA in this paper.

    From Jeong et al. (2018), all of the Khovsgol_LBA samples belonged to Y-haplogroup Q1a except for two, an R1a outlier ARS026 and ARS003 with Y-haplogroup N-M178 and Mt-haplogroup U5a2d1. This is the only sample with a "western" Mt-haplogroup, the rest of the samples belonged to Siberian A, B, C, D and G although, he is apparently not more western shifted than other Khovsgol samples.

    Of course in this paper ARS003 is also included, listed as a part of the DSKC but with the addition of BER002 which is also N-Tat.

    Depending on the subclade this N may have been local or from a west-east back migration.
    I think during the N-TAT period (13500-9600 BCE), this population was still in China. N-F1419 is the southern Altai, just where B187 separates. N-L708 is the population in the Northern Altai, where Y9022 separates. N-M2126 is Central Siberia, possibly the Baraba culture. There is separated M2019. N-L1026 this is Western Siberia, possibly Krotovo culture. There Z1936 separates, which may go West through the Middle Urals (Chysovaya river). Subclade Y6058 goes through the southern Urals, while Y16323 remains in the steppes of the southern Urals, and CTS10760 crosses the Urals and ends up in the Volga region (Chirkovo culture).

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  14. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    I think during the N-TAT period (13500-9600 BCE), this population was still in China. N-F1419 is the southern Altai, just where B187 separates. N-L708 is the population in the Northern Altai, where Y9022 separates. N-M2126 is Central Siberia, possibly the Baraba culture. There is separated M2019. N-L1026 this is Western Siberia, possibly Krotovo culture. There Z1936 separates, which may go West through the Middle Urals (Chysovaya river). Subclade Y6058 goes through the southern Urals, while Y16323 remains in the steppes of the southern Urals, and CTS10760 crosses the Urals and ends up in the Volga region (Chirkovo culture).
    This looks feasible, in light of Ning et al. (2020), Amur or Northeast China looks like a reasonable bet for the birthplace of N-Tat.

    I will say that the Krotovo culture is closely related to the Elunin culture, just west of the Altai, where two Y-haplogroup Q samples (one Q1b) have been found, in Mallory et al. (2014) IIRC. With that being said, the Krotovo and Odino cultures to its west may still have been rich in N-L1026.

    In my original post, I was just pointing out that the N-Tat in DSKC may have come from the west, one of the main branches of N found in Mongolians is N-L1026+. This remains to be seen however.
    Last edited by Zelto; 10-31-2020 at 09:51 PM.

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