Page 28 of 38 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 375

Thread: BAM Files is Available (A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia's Eastern )

  1. #271
    Registered Users
    Posts
    239
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    East Europe + Finland
    Nationality
    Russian
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-Z1936-Y19110
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a5b

    Russian Federation
    On the Middle Amur below the confluence of the zei, there was another early Neolithic culture-the Novopetrovskaya culture. Definition of time of existence of the main city monuments, methods of radiocarbon Dating identified the chronological period of about 11-8 thousand L. N. has been observed that the processing technology of stone, the way of life of the population and some other important signs together Novopetrovskaya culture with the culture of Anansi, which existed in northeast China. Anansi cultural monuments are located primarily in the middle reaches of the Nenjiang river basin. The sources of this river originate in the mountains of Bolshoy and Maly Khingan in those areas where the novopetrov settlements of the Middle Amur are very close – in some places no more than 100 km; the Nenjiang flows into the Sungari river, which carries its waters to the Amur. Thus, river networks closely connect the region of distribution of the novopetrov culture and the Anansi culture, creating favorable conditions for migration of human groups. It is very likely that these cultures had a common ethnic basis. The authors ' conclusions based on recent archaeological research confirm previous opinions of Russian and Chinese archaeologists regarding the main features of the Anansi culture and its similarity to the novopetrov culture. The problem in its modern formulation is that, according to recent radiocarbon Dating, the Novopetrovskaya culture in the main phases of its existence belongs to an earlier period (11-8 thousand years ago) than the Anansi culture. Modern Chinese publications usually indicate a period from 8 to 5 thousand years ago for the Anansi culture. It should be noted that the Genesis of these two cultures, which have different names, but, according to the unanimous opinion, represent the same culture in its local variants, originates in the Middle Amur. Here this culture reaches a developed state. About 8 thousand years ago, the technology of this culture begins to appear in the Nenjiang basin. Most likely, the spread of technologies was due to the movement of part of the population from the banks of the Middle Amur to the West. Judging by the fact that the novopetrovskiye monuments show a tendency to gradual extinction of culture, the main part of the population was involved in migration to the West, to the Nenjiang basin under the influence of internal or external factors. West of Little Khingan, this community developed within the boundaries of the culture known as the Anansi culture. "Peoples and religions of the Amur region". Amur state University, 2017. I would like to add that M54A Houtaomuga_EN2, N1a1-pre Y23747, 5480-5370 BCE is located on the Nenjiang river.

    https://museum.amursu.ru/images/publ...compressed.pdf

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to VladimirTaraskin For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (12-02-2020),  Kristiina (12-02-2020),  Megalophias (12-02-2020),  Ryukendo (12-02-2020),  Zelto (12-02-2020)

  3. #272
    Registered Users
    Posts
    42
    Sex
    Omitted
    Ethnicity
    1/2 Swedish 1/2 German
    Y-DNA (P)
    N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    U2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Yes, I agree that the presence of N1b in Shandong 8000 BP proves the origin of N in China as much as the presence of R2a in Ganj Dareh (I1954) Iran 8294-7992 calBCE proves the origin of R in Iran.
    I was not trying to imply the Shandong sample proves N originated there. The problem with your analogy is that there are way older R samples available like MA1, the sample from 8230ybp in Shandong is the oldest N we have. This is relatively young in the grand scheme of things, especially when sampling of way older sites has been done in Siberia.

    Given the lack of early N in Siberia, it is unlikely a migration occurred from there in to China. UKY001 is the first Siberian sample to show significant Houtaomuga-like admixture, and the uniparentals of Native Americans make me doubt N was even the first lineage carrying this eastern admixture to enter Siberia.

    Prior to this, most of North Eurasia seems to have been predominantly ANE with Y-hgs P, Q and R.
    Last edited by Zelto; 12-02-2020 at 05:52 PM.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Zelto For This Useful Post:

     alchemist223 (12-02-2020)

  5. #273
    Registered Users
    Posts
    412
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    1/2 Italian, 1/2 Armenian
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152
    mtDNA (M)
    H5a

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelto View Post
    I was not trying to imply the Shandong sample proves N originated there. The problem with your analogy is that there are way older R samples available like MA1, the sample from 8230ybp in Shandong is the oldest N we have. This is relatively young in the grand scheme of things, especially when sampling of way older sites has been done in Siberia.

    Given the lack of early N in Siberia, it is unlikely a migration occurred from there in to China. UKY001 is the first Siberian sample to show significant Houtaomuga-like admixture, and the uniparentals of Native Americans make me doubt N was even the first lineage carrying this eastern admixture to enter Siberia.

    Prior to this, most of North Eurasia seems to have been predominantly ANE with Y-hgs P, Q and R.
    Makes sense. I assume prior to being ANE it was Kosenteki/Sunghir like in terms of ydna and autosomal ancestry.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to davit For This Useful Post:

     alchemist223 (12-02-2020),  etrusco (12-02-2020)

  7. #274
    Global Moderator
    Posts
    832
    Sex
    Location
    EU
    Ethnicity
    Finnish
    Y-DNA (P)
    Father N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    I5a

    Western Siberia is poorly sampled, and we do not have any samples from the area inhabited by Uralic populations in the northern taiga, and we won't get any samples for years to come. Maybe never.

    We have two extinct K2a samples from Europe and Siberia and one extinct R* from Baikal and a couple of Ps from Northeastern Siberia and one from North China. To me this is a clear indication of the origin of K2 in northern Siberia. If N had spent LGM with O in China, they would have a similar distribution today and comparable TMRCAs, but that's not the case.

    Tell me where do you think N was during the LGM?

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kristiina For This Useful Post:

     alchemist223 (12-02-2020),  Jatt1 (12-02-2020)

  9. #275
    Registered Users
    Posts
    42
    Sex
    Omitted
    Ethnicity
    1/2 Swedish 1/2 German
    Y-DNA (P)
    N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    U2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Western Siberia is poorly sampled, and we do not have any samples from the area inhabited by Uralic populations in the northern taiga, and we won't get any samples for years to come. Maybe never.

    We have two extinct K2a samples from Europe and Siberia and one extinct R* from Baikal and a couple of Ps from Northeastern Siberia and one from North China. To me this is a clear indication of the origin of K2 in northern Siberia. If N had spent LGM with O in China, they would have a similar distribution today and comparable TMRCAs, but that's not the case.

    Tell me where do you think N was during the LGM?
    Western Siberia is indeed poorly sampled but this and the question of where Uralic populations were seems irrelevant to the discussion of where N was during the LGM. It seems infeasible given current aDNA that an N rich population existed between the P, Q and R groups of central/eastern Siberia and Europe, especially this early.

    Ust-Ishim (45,000ybp) and Oase-1 ( 37,000-42,000ybp) existed almost 20,000 years before the LGM, and are extinct lineages. Where K2 ultimately originated also seems irrelevant to the question of N, which only has a TMRCA of 21,700ybp according to Yfull.

    I'm not sure why you think N must have had a similar distribution to O if they spent the LGM in China together. China is a big place and N clearly spread in the aftermath of the LGM because of its TMRCA and northern distribution. O may have existed in a more southern, hospitable region given its much older TMRCA and multitude of early branches, but I don't think that negates the possibility of N existing in a more inhospitable region of China.

    If I were to guess N spent the LGM within the region of present day China, in an area that was more inhospitable than O. Whether that means it was farther north or west, I am not sure.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Zelto For This Useful Post:

     alchemist223 (12-02-2020),  Ryukendo (12-06-2020)

  11. #276
    Registered Users
    Posts
    170
    Sex
    Location
    Alta California
    Ethnicity
    Mostly French + Italian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-BY3604
    Y-DNA (M)
    most likely J-L210
    mtDNA (P)
    K1b2b

    Canada Quebec Italy California Republic United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelto View Post
    Western Siberia is indeed poorly sampled but this and the question of where Uralic populations were seems irrelevant to the discussion of where N was during the LGM. It seems infeasible given current aDNA that an N rich population existed between the P, Q and R groups of central/eastern Siberia and Europe, especially this early.

    Ust-Ishim (45,000ybp) and Oase-1 ( 37,000-42,000ybp) existed almost 20,000 years before the LGM, and are extinct lineages. Where K2 ultimately originated also seems irrelevant to the question of N, which only has a TMRCA of 21,700ybp according to Yfull.

    I'm not sure why you think N must have had a similar distribution to O if they spent the LGM in China together. China is a big place and N clearly spread in the aftermath of the LGM because of its TMRCA and northern distribution. O may have existed in a more southern, hospitable region given its much older TMRCA and multitude of early branches, but I don't think that negates the possibility of N existing in a more inhospitable region of China.

    If I were to guess N spent the LGM within the region of present day China, in an area that was more inhospitable than O. Whether that means it was farther north or west, I am not sure.
    My view is closer to that of Zelto, although Kristina does make some interesting points. I think it is really telling that there is virtually no Haplogroup N among Native American populations (with the exception of the Tlicho, a Na-Dene speaking indigenous group in Northern Canada). The Na-Dene peoples are in fact descended from a later migration into the New World than most indigenous Americans.
    Last edited by alchemist223; 12-02-2020 at 10:04 PM.
    MDKA: Robert Boulay, b. 1631, Réveillon, Orne, France
    Y-DNA: R1b-U152 > L2 > Z367 > Z34 > Z33 > BY164497> BY3604

    Maternal Y-DNA: J2a-M67 > Z1847 > Y4036 > Z467 > Z447> L210

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to alchemist223 For This Useful Post:

     Ryukendo (12-02-2020)

  13. #277
    Global Moderator
    Posts
    832
    Sex
    Location
    EU
    Ethnicity
    Finnish
    Y-DNA (P)
    Father N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    I5a

    Zelto, let's make a bet. If 16-20 kya old N is found within the borders of China south of the City of Harbin (and excluding Japan and Korea), I pay 120€ to Anthrogenica, if equally old N is found north of Harbin, you pay 120€ to Anthrogenica.

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Kristiina For This Useful Post:

     alchemist223 (12-02-2020),  davit (12-02-2020),  Jatt1 (12-02-2020),  Ryukendo (12-02-2020)

  15. #278
    Registered Users
    Posts
    239
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    East Europe + Finland
    Nationality
    Russian
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-Z1936-Y19110
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a5b

    Russian Federation
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelto View Post
    Western Siberia is indeed poorly sampled but this and the question of where Uralic populations were seems irrelevant to the discussion of where N was during the LGM. It seems infeasible given current aDNA that an N rich population existed between the P, Q and R groups of central/eastern Siberia and Europe, especially this early.

    Ust-Ishim (45,000ybp) and Oase-1 ( 37,000-42,000ybp) existed almost 20,000 years before the LGM, and are extinct lineages. Where K2 ultimately originated also seems irrelevant to the question of N, which only has a TMRCA of 21,700ybp according to Yfull.

    I'm not sure why you think N must have had a similar distribution to O if they spent the LGM in China together. China is a big place and N clearly spread in the aftermath of the LGM because of its TMRCA and northern distribution. O may have existed in a more southern, hospitable region given its much older TMRCA and multitude of early branches, but I don't think that negates the possibility of N existing in a more inhospitable region of China.

    If I were to guess N spent the LGM within the region of present day China, in an area that was more inhospitable than O. Whether that means it was farther north or west, I am not sure.

    In addition to P, Q, R somewhere there was C2a and C2b. I wonder how and when they got to Mongolia

  16. #279
    Registered Users
    Posts
    42
    Sex
    Omitted
    Ethnicity
    1/2 Swedish 1/2 German
    Y-DNA (P)
    N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    U2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Zelto, let's make a bet. If 16-20 kya old N is found within the borders of China south of the City of Harbin (and excluding Japan and Korea), I pay 120€ to Anthrogenica, if equally old N is found north of Harbin, you pay 120€ to Anthrogenica.
    Sure, why not? Although I would consider Amur to be "within the region of present day China".

    I am waiting to see aDNA from the microblade cultures of Northern China.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...achuan_culture

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Zelto For This Useful Post:

     davit (12-02-2020),  Ryukendo (12-02-2020)

  18. #280
    Registered Users
    Posts
    42
    Sex
    Omitted
    Ethnicity
    1/2 Swedish 1/2 German
    Y-DNA (P)
    N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    U2

    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    In addition to P, Q, R somewhere there was C2a and C2b. I wonder how and when they got to Mongolia
    Somewhere close by I imagine, there seems to have been a lot of geographic and genetic overlap between N and C2 during the Early Neolithic.

    I'm sure you have already seen this recent paper.
    https://doi.org/10.1002/ajpa.24173
    Last edited by Zelto; 12-02-2020 at 10:17 PM.

Page 28 of 38 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 103
    Last Post: 09-20-2020, 01:29 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-25-2020, 03:39 PM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-30-2019, 07:57 AM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-28-2018, 10:00 PM
  5. Replies: 39
    Last Post: 07-21-2014, 02:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •