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Thread: Countries of ancestry what do they mean?

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    Countries of ancestry what do they mean?

    I matches that do make sense, but some that are off like Ireland, Holland, Italy, Romania. Well others do make sense.

    For example I have on the Countries of ancestry

    Iraq 0.5%
    Iran 0.4%
    Syria 0.2%
    Ireland 0.2%
    Netherlands 0.2%
    Turkey 0.1%
    Mexico 0.1%
    Lebanon 0.1%
    Denmark 0.1%
    Poland 0.0%

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    Matches in far flung places are there because people move around, so dont dismiss them so easily..

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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Matches in far flung places are there because people move around, so dont dismiss them so easily..
    Yes that's indeed true, the funny thing is they are ethnic Italians, ethnic Irish, and ethnic Dutch. Now with Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, and Iran it makes sense. However link to these European ethnic groups is interesting, and like you say due to various movements like the Moorish conquest, the Crusades, Arab merchants, European merchants and so on. It's quite interesting if this actually factual.

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    on the other hand, matches that have tiny %'s are often considered by the experts that designed the tests (and understand the math behind the calculations) to be mere back ground noise
    ...also, if you go back far enough, we are all kin and sometimes the tests pick up on that too, tiny remnants of when lets say, a nice Irish boy's ancester's lived on the Russian Steppes, what 15,000 yrs ago?

    My 2 cents is put the tiny %'s off to the side and work on the more realistic ones, the ones where you have a bit of actual family history or paper trail...when you come to dead ends on all of those, then look at the 'odd ball' matches and see what you can squeeze out of the numbers

    I think this genealogical DNA game can be pretty tough all by itself, I dont know how useful it is pouring a ton of time into an area that is likely an obscure math error

    regards

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanson View Post
    Yes that's indeed true, the funny thing is they are ethnic Italians, ethnic Irish, and ethnic Dutch. Now with Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, and Iran it makes sense. However link to these European ethnic groups is interesting, and like you say due to various movements like the Moorish conquest, the Crusades, Arab merchants, European merchants and so on. It's quite interesting if this actually factual.
    Well, you can check them out, usually you will see a pattern if you look at it enough and from many angels. So far as an example, i can see that CoA show segments with shared ancestry at least 1000 years ago, this because people with Roma/Romani ancestry in Europe have matches in India/Pakistan/Nepal ect, and the recorded diaspora for Roma/Romani coupled with DNA mutation rates ect, show that the date of leaving South Asia was approximately 1000 years ago.

    You see a similar trend for people with English ancestry, they usually have matches with Denmark that could be linked to the Danelaw era there, which is approximately 1000 years ago also.

    My family have a few small middle eastern matches, Kuwait, Iran and Jordan ect, which i suspect are due to Med merchant activity and Greek settlement ect, and i think they are very old. You might have a similar link, and Greeks are a good example of a people whom have moved around allot, settling in far flung places, from Iberia to Pakistan..

    Irish seem to be one of the most sampled peoples in the 23andme database, which i suspect is a factor, but they were also a slave marked for several 100 years at least, and the Norse and Svea peoples in Scandinavia often sold them on markeds in the middle east, so there might be a link there. I think the Romans would also fetch slaves from Ireland, it seems logical given their location in England at the time. Another thing is mercenaries, Irish have been big in that game too, serving in various conflicts around Europe, and lastly the Barbary raids, whom took slaves as far north as Iceland and sold them in North Africa.. Its noteworthy that i have noted allot of North African matches for Norwegians, which is likely linked to the Iceland raid, which is famous in Icelandic history..

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    Quite a few of the countries will also be because your cousins have recent ancestry from other countries. I have some cousins who are half-Indian, half-Japanese, half-Korean etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    You see a similar trend for people with English ancestry, they usually have matches with Denmark that could be linked to the Danelaw era there, which is approximately 1000 years ago also.
    I have a few 4GP Danish matches, and at least one mostly English American cousin has a Danish match in common with myself. Much of my ancestry comes from the Danelaw area, including coastal counties such as Lancashire and Suffolk.

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    Here's an interesting situation that shows one of the ways "Countries of Ancestry" is misleadingly named.

    My father's known ancestry for nearly 200 years before he was born was limited to Pennsylvania, and possibly Maryland. Before that, his ancestry was divided about equally between the UK -- skewed toward Scotland and Northern Ireland -- and Germany.

    And, the first three of his "Countries of Ancestry" are, at least, countries from which his ancestry is known to have come: UK (1.8%), Ireland (0.8%), and Germany (0.6%). However, he also has in his CoA list: Italy (0.2%), Finland (0.2%), Poland (0.1%), Netherlands (0.1%), Denmark (0.1%), Belgium (0.1%), Argentina (0.1%), and Brazil (0.0%).

    But when I looked a little more closely, I discovered something curious. For both Italy and Finland, the graphic showed only a single segment on chromosome 12. In each case, the segment appeared to be in the same location on the chromosome. It was slightly longer for Italy (8.7 cM) than for Finland (8.5 cM), but otherwise the only difference in clicking from one to the other seemed to be that the match was shown in a different color.

    Initially, I thought it was perhaps a coincidence -- that these represented matching segments on two different chromosomes -- one on his paternal copy of chromosome 12, and one on his maternal copy. It turns out, however, that my eldest brother has the same two segments in his CoA.

    While recombination would have permitted my brother to have inherited a paternal copy of chromosome 12 than included segments from both paternal grandparents, this would not be true for segments that were in the same place on the chromosome. (And lest anyone think these were not the same two segments, both were "public" matches with same two names.)

    This means that the "Italian" match and the "Finnish" match share the same segment with my father, so they should also share the same segment with each other. So is the segment Italian, or is it Finnish? Probably neither. In all likelihood, the common ancestor of all three individuals come from somewhere in-between. Germany, perhaps?
    Last edited by geebee; 02-18-2014 at 06:34 PM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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    The five listed on my Ancestry Overview appear likely. Beyond that, I assume many of the smaller matches are not directly related to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee View Post
    Here's an interesting situation that shows one of the ways "Countries of Ancestry" is misleadingly named.

    My father's known ancestry for nearly 200 years before he was born was limited to Pennsylvania, and possibly Maryland. Before that, his ancestry was divided about equally between the UK -- skewed toward Scotland and Northern Ireland -- and Germany.

    And, the first three of his "Countries of Ancestry" are, at least, countries from which his ancestry is known to have come: UK (1.8%), Ireland (0.8%), and Germany (0.6%). However, he also has in his CoA list: Italy (0.2%), Finland (0.2%), Poland (0.1%), Netherlands (0.1%), Denmark (0.1%), Belgium (0.1%), Argentina (0.1%), and Brazil (0.0%).

    But when I looked a little more closely, I discovered something curious. For both Italy and Finland, the graphic showed only a single segment on chromosome 12. In each case, the segment appeared to be in the same location on the chromosome. It was slightly longer for Italy (8.7 cM) than for Finland (8.5 cM), but otherwise the only difference in clicking from one to the other seemed to be that the match was shown in a different color.

    Initially, I thought it was perhaps a coincidence -- that these represented matching segments on two different chromosomes -- one on his paternal copy of chromosome 12, and one on his maternal copy. It turns out, however, that my eldest brother has the same two segments in his CoA.

    While recombination would have permitted my brother to have inherited a paternal copy of chromosome 12 than included segments from both paternal grandparents, this would not be true for segments that were in the same place on the chromosome. (And lest anyone think these were not the same two segments, both were "public" matches with same two names.)

    This means that the "Italian" match and the "Finnish" match share the same segment with my father, so they should also share the same segment with each other. So is the segment Italian, or is it Finnish? Probably neither. In all likelihood, the common ancestor of all three individuals come from somewhere in-between. Germany, perhaps?
    i have the same italian-finnish issue and its basically from areas from Nuremberg to Ulm ( as I was told). this finnish part for me was in the 16th century , as advised.

    But swedes also fall into this mix as many finns settled in Sweden during the Great Swedish Empire days ( under the reign of the Vasa familiy)

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