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Thread: T1a3-Y44858 and T1a2-Y47963 are found in China

  1. #1
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    T1a3-Y44858 and T1a2-Y47963 are found in China

    I am from China and belong to T1a3-Y44858. I found 8 other people tested T1a2-Y47963 positive in China. All but one are Han Chinese without middle eastern religion background. That means the ancestors of this two branches might have migrated out of the near east in ancient time. My family genealogy traces back to an ancestor in East Han dynasty (about 2000 yrs ago).
    An ancient DNA dated 5400yrs ago in North Caucasian (Ipatovo,Russia) is T1a3, probably Y8614. Based on autosomal analysis, this Ancient DNA was an outlier to the native Yamnaya (Maykop) cultural group. So it seems this T1a3 group of people might have just moved to North Caucasian not so long before. They might have been assimilated to this Yamnaya group and then followed them to expand to middle Asia and some of them to Europe (I found a German in downstream branch Y19169 of T1a3 in Yfull tree). Yamnaya group founded several ancient Tocharian states in current northwest China and Chinese DNA testing company 23mofang does find haplogroup T in that region too.
    Other haplogroup T branches are also found in China, the origin of some might be from silk road traders and most Hui ethnic group were taken to China by Monguls from middle Asia and Middle East.

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     aaronbee2010 (10-27-2020),  BMG (10-26-2020),  drobbah (10-26-2020),  vettor (10-26-2020)

  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westland View Post
    I am from China and belong to T1a3-Y44858. I found 8 other people tested T1a2-Y47963 positive in China. All but one are Han Chinese without middle eastern religion background. That means the ancestors of this two branches might have migrated out of the near east in ancient time. My family genealogy traces back to an ancestor in East Han dynasty (about 2000 yrs ago).
    An ancient DNA dated 5400yrs ago in North Caucasian (Ipatovo,Russia) is T1a3, probably Y8614. Based on autosomal analysis, this Ancient DNA was an outlier to the native Yamnaya (Maykop) cultural group. So it seems this T1a3 group of people might have just moved to North Caucasian not so long before. They might have been assimilated to this Yamnaya group and then followed them to expand to middle Asia and some of them to Europe (I found a German in downstream branch Y19169 of T1a3 in Yfull tree). Yamnaya group founded several ancient Tocharian states in current northwest China and Chinese DNA testing company 23mofang does find haplogroup T in that region too.
    Other haplogroup T branches are also found in China, the origin of some might be from silk road traders and most Hui ethnic group were taken to China by Monguls from middle Asia and Middle East.
    there are a couple of old T1a3

    DA125 ( 1755 ± 41 yBP )
    Kurgan: found in southern Kazakstan

    Y-DNA: T1a3-Y13279
    mtDNA: U2e2a1

    .................................................

    I was told this is also T1a3.....but I cannot find any clear call on it ...some say T1a2

    Gonur Depe ( 3600 yBP - Bronze Age ) Bactria Margiana (BMAC)

    I1781 ( 3550 ± 30 yBP / 3841 yBP )

    Y-DNA: T-M184 (xT1a1a, T1a1b1a, T1a2a1b-Y14637, T1a2b2a1)
    mtDNA: T1a1


    .......................................

    On Ipatovo,Russia

    Y-DNA: T1-CTS6004 (xT1a1a-CTS484, T1a1b-Y6031, T1a2b-FGC37316) Most Probably: T1a2a-Y8614
    mtDNA: X1'2'3


    Two quotes from David Anthony's papers:


    Quote 1:
    "Ornaments of Balkan copper, exotic ornamental shells (Glycemeris, Antalis), long lamellar flint blades, polished stone maces, and perhaps people and animals were exchanged across the Pontic–Caspian steppes from Varna to Khvalynsk and Svobodnoe between 4500-4200 BC."

    Quote 2:
    "At the cemetery of Khvalynsk on the middle Volga, dated about 4700 bc, 320 copper ornaments were found in 201 graves. Some objects were made or repaired locally, but most were made of Bulgarian copper, and a handful (rings and spiral bracelets) were made in the same way as the copper ornaments found at Varna, and probably were imported from Bulgaria."

    Before farming was found in the steppe regions, the people of the steppe consisted of different distinct unrelated cultures, totally different from the later Khvalynsk / Sredny Stog culture. So, it is obvious that the ancestors of the Varna golden elite individual were involved in the formation of this Eneolithic steppe civilization. The people of the Neolithic Revolution brought their culture to the natives of the Steppe during the Eneolithic period, and mixed with each other in time.

    And I think that the arrival of the ancestors of the Steppe Maykop individual IV3002 from the Ipatovo kurgan in the steppe region is probably related to these mixing events described above.


    Golden elite individual from the Varna culture belongs to T, and the fact that the earlier Starčevo–Körös–Criș culture individual from the same Bulgarian region belongs to T, means that the ruling group of the Neolithic Revolution could be related to T.

    .....................................

    The highest % of T1a2 and T1a3 people currently are Nenets and Kazakhs (especially Momyns and Argyns) in that area of central asia .............
    Last edited by vettor; 10-26-2020 at 03:33 AM.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

  4. #3
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    I found this for DA125

    DA125, T1a3a1a1-Y13279

    from

    137 ancient human genomes from across the Eurasian steppes

    For thousands of years the Eurasian steppes have been a centre of human migrations and cultural change. Here we sequence the genomes of 137 ancient humans (about 1× average coverage), covering a period of 4,000 years, to understand the population history of the Eurasian steppes after the Bronze Age migrations. We find that the genetics of the Scythian groups that dominated the Eurasian steppes throughout the Iron Age were highly structured, with diverse origins comprising Late Bronze Age herders, European farmers and southern Siberian hunter-gatherers. Later, Scythians admixed with the eastern steppe nomads who formed the Xiongnu confederations, and moved westward in about the second or third century BC, forming the Hun traditions in the fourth–fifth century AD, and carrying with them plague that was basal to the Justinian plague. These nomads were further admixed with East Asian groups during several short-term khanates in the Medieval period. These historical events transformed the Eurasian steppes from being inhabited by Indo-European speakers of largely West Eurasian ancestry to the mostly Turkic-speaking groups of the present day, who are primarily of East Asian ancestry.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0094-2


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

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    a Russian paper found many T1a2 T1a3, L and G1 .......here are some numbers of



    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

  6. #5
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    Kazakstan T1a3 is downstream of Y13290 and it seems that my ancestor already moved to Central China at least several hundred years this sample.
    Gonur Depe ( 3600 yBP - Bronze Age ) , the file in my record is T1a(xL162,xP322,xY6033),which means it is not T1a1, T1a2-L446, T1a2-PH141-P322 and leaving T1a2-Y47963 and T1a3 two possibilities.

    Varna T is L206 negative which means it is not in T1a family and might belong to T2 or some unknown or extinct branch.

    Based on this paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1, from the gene flow information, Here are the possible migration routes of T in this region.

    1603697618(1).png

    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    there are a couple of old T1a3

    DA125 ( 1755 ± 41 yBP )
    Kurgan: found in southern Kazakstan

    Y-DNA: T1a3-Y13279
    mtDNA: U2e2a1

    .................................................

    I was told this is also T1a3.....but I cannot find any clear call on it ...some say T1a2

    Gonur Depe ( 3600 yBP - Bronze Age ) Bactria Margiana (BMAC)

    I1781 ( 3550 ± 30 yBP / 3841 yBP )

    Y-DNA: T-M184 (xT1a1a, T1a1b1a, T1a2a1b-Y14637, T1a2b2a1)
    mtDNA: T1a1


    .......................................

    On Ipatovo,Russia

    Y-DNA: T1-CTS6004 (xT1a1a-CTS484, T1a1b-Y6031, T1a2b-FGC37316) Most Probably: T1a2a-Y8614
    mtDNA: X1'2'3


    Two quotes from David Anthony's papers:


    Quote 1:
    "Ornaments of Balkan copper, exotic ornamental shells (Glycemeris, Antalis), long lamellar flint blades, polished stone maces, and perhaps people and animals were exchanged across the Pontic–Caspian steppes from Varna to Khvalynsk and Svobodnoe between 4500-4200 BC."

    Quote 2:
    "At the cemetery of Khvalynsk on the middle Volga, dated about 4700 bc, 320 copper ornaments were found in 201 graves. Some objects were made or repaired locally, but most were made of Bulgarian copper, and a handful (rings and spiral bracelets) were made in the same way as the copper ornaments found at Varna, and probably were imported from Bulgaria."

    Before farming was found in the steppe regions, the people of the steppe consisted of different distinct unrelated cultures, totally different from the later Khvalynsk / Sredny Stog culture. So, it is obvious that the ancestors of the Varna golden elite individual were involved in the formation of this Eneolithic steppe civilization. The people of the Neolithic Revolution brought their culture to the natives of the Steppe during the Eneolithic period, and mixed with each other in time.

    And I think that the arrival of the ancestors of the Steppe Maykop individual IV3002 from the Ipatovo kurgan in the steppe region is probably related to these mixing events described above.


    Golden elite individual from the Varna culture belongs to T, and the fact that the earlier Starčevo–Körös–Criș culture individual from the same Bulgarian region belongs to T, means that the ruling group of the Neolithic Revolution could be related to T.

    .....................................

    The highest % of T1a2 and T1a3 people currently are Nenets and Kazakhs (especially Momyns and Argyns) in that area of central asia .............

  7. #6
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    Don't know why, I can't open this image. Thanks for sharing anyway.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westland View Post
    Kazakstan T1a3 is downstream of Y13290 and it seems that my ancestor already moved to Central China at least several hundred years this sample.
    Gonur Depe ( 3600 yBP - Bronze Age ) , the file in my record is T1a(xL162,xP322,xY6033),which means it is not T1a1, T1a2-L446, T1a2-PH141-P322 and leaving T1a2-Y47963 and T1a3 two possibilities.

    Varna T is L206 negative which means it is not in T1a family and might belong to T2 or some unknown or extinct branch.

    Based on this paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1, from the gene flow information, Here are the possible migration routes of T in this region.

    1603697618(1).png
    Varna T ....which is sample ANI152 VAR43 was found to have the following ( late 2019 this was given to me ) positive snp's

    T-Y3804/FGC1231
    T-Z7767/FGC1179


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Varna T ....which is sample ANI152 VAR43 was found to have the following ( late 2019 this was given to me ) positive snp's

    T-Y3804/FGC1231
    T-Z7767/FGC1179
    T-Y3804/FGC1231 and T-Z7767/FGC1179 are all T root equivalent snps.

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