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Thread: V88 in Ancient Israel?

  1. #1
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    V88 in Ancient Israel?

    Hello,
    Several months ago, on this forum, I came across a migration map called "Eupedia map of R1b Migration".
    I don't know the author or the forum sub folder to find it again.
    It shows my DNA, V88 in Ancient Israel, dont know the time period though.

    My Geno2 reports 56% Mediterranean, 21% Northern European, 20% Southwest Asian, 2% Northeast Asian.
    I just received my FTDNA Family Finder results which says I'm 100% +/- 01 Middle East Jewish.
    All my family lines are Jewish and have been traced back to abt 1800 in Galicia, Austrian Empire, before that in Russia.
    The new "Morley Experimental Y Tree" came out and my kit test began a new branch, R1b1c-2, kit # 305168.
    My DNA goal was to see if my ancestry goes back to the time/place of ancient Israel.
    Has there been an estimate of when my V88 was in Ancient Israel?
    Has my goal been achieved?

    I appreciate any insights and discussions,
    Take care,
    Brian

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rb1-V88 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-15-2014),  Joe B (02-20-2014),  rms2 (02-21-2014)

  3. #2
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    R-V88 in Eastern Europe does seem very interesting. I'm not sure if this lineage exists in West Asia but if it does, it's definitely very rare. Obviously this is the African version of R1b, but it's worthy to mention that it does show up in Egypt in moderate numbers, so considering that you have a Jewish background there may be some ancient connection there.

    Also I'm curious, have you tested positive for R-M18 (R1b1c1)? This one is actually found in Lebanon and Sardinia.
    Last edited by Tomasso29; 02-19-2014 at 11:23 PM.

  4. #3
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    From Gen02, SNP's testing positive appeared on my FTDNA page,
    I didn't understand the numbers but someone said I tested negative for both M18 and V69.

  5. #4
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    The Morley Experimental YDNA tree cam out and my kit started a new branch in R1b1c. My kit # is 305168.
    I attached a screen shot of the section of the tree where I'm found.
    Really don't know what any of this means.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rb1-V88 View Post
    The Morley Experimental YDNA tree cam out and my kit started a new branch in R1b1c. My kit # is 305168.
    I attached a screen shot of the section of the tree where I'm found.
    Really don't know what any of this means.
    I see your kit in this project:

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    Looks like there's a whole Jewish cluster that shares a recent ancestor, definitely an intriguing story and I think may very well go back to the Jewish migration from the Middle East. However the ultimate source prior to that is probably an ancient gene wave from Africa to the ME. Of course this is all based on personal opinion.

  7. #6
    I believe R-V88 has been found amongst Dead Sea Jordanians for example, and amongst us genealogists, amongst Middle Easterners and Jews, as I understand it.

    But Eupedia does tend to be creative and speculative. In reality it is hard to say much about what really happened. I do think there is at least a reasonable chance R-V88 was once more common in the Levant.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Andrew Lancaster For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-15-2014),  rms2 (02-21-2014)

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rb1-V88 View Post
    Hello,
    Several months ago, on this forum, I came across a migration map called "Eupedia map of R1b Migration".
    I don't know the author or the forum sub folder to find it again.
    It shows my DNA, V88 in Ancient Israel, dont know the time period though.

    My Geno2 reports 56% Mediterranean, 21% Northern European, 20% Southwest Asian, 2% Northeast Asian.
    I just received my FTDNA Family Finder results which says I'm 100% +/- 01 Middle East Jewish.
    All my family lines are Jewish and have been traced back to abt 1800 in Galicia, Austrian Empire, before that in Russia.
    The new "Morley Experimental Y Tree" came out and my kit test began a new branch, R1b1c-2, kit # 305168.
    My DNA goal was to see if my ancestry goes back to the time/place of ancient Israel.
    Has there been an estimate of when my V88 was in Ancient Israel?
    Has my goal been achieved?

    I appreciate any insights and discussions,
    Take care,
    Brian
    Hey Brian,
    Glad to see you post on Anthrogenica. It was fun watching you find your suclade on the FTDNA forum. Thanks for your interest in the R1b-V88 subclade too. Nothing like having a real V88 haplotype to regenerate interest in that subclade. Hopefully someone will know if M18, V8, V35 and V7 are worth testing.

    Alan, one of our more prolific and insightful members, has an interest in the origin and migration of R1b-V88 and the other early R1b subclades.
    Thread: A role for Kura-Araxes in the spread of V88?
    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    This very recent paper confirms the evidence of a migration to the Levant by Kura-Araxes peoples from a pottery perspective

    http://kura-arax.tau.ac.il/system/fi...20_TUBA-AR.pdf

    recall too the P25 concentration on the Dead Sea that turned out to be V88.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ver_en.svg.png

    This is all extremely suggestive of a link between KA migration and V88. It also brought them very close to Africa at the perfect date c. 2700BC close to that of 2500BC which Anatole, Vass etc have calculated the age of African-only V88. Its also known that there are KA settlements on Cyprus so these people had access to boats if needed too.

    While not the originators of there copper routes they may well have followed the sort of trade routes that Amazallug shows on his maps of c. 3000BC (he is always vague on dates by the way) and even link into NE Africa.

    http://www.ajaonline.org/sites/defau...Amzallag_0.pdf

    I even notice Amazallug, as well as the land route from the Levant, has placed a little 3rd millenium arrow going from Cyprus to Egypt. As noted above, KA had a presence on the island by then and was involved in the metallurgy of that island by then.

    A lot seems to stack up for the concept of an encorporation of V88 into the Kura-Araxes culture somewhere like east Anatolia and a spread down the Levant and into Africa.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Joe B For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-15-2014)

  11. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Lancaster View Post
    I believe R-V88 has been found amongst Dead Sea Jordanians for example, and amongst us genealogists, amongst Middle Easterners and Jews, as I understand it.

    But Eupedia does tend to be creative and speculative. In reality it is hard to say much about what really happened. I do think there is at least a reasonable chance R-V88 was once more common in the Levant.
    What would support the idea that R-V88 was once more common in the Levant?

  12. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    What would support the idea that R-V88 was once more common in the Levant?
    Better testing in the area, for starters.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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  14. #10
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    I appreciate the comments and references, its a lot to understand but I'm getting there.
    Brian

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