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Thread: What lead to the resurgence of WHG ancestry and Y-dna in Neolithic Europe?

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    What lead to the resurgence of WHG ancestry and Y-dna in Neolithic Europe?

    I'm not all that familiar with Neolithic Europe and some of you guys here really are, so I figured I'd ask Anthrogenica's opinion on this matter!

    From what I gather the early migrations of Anatolian Neolithic farmers lead to a pretty big replacement of the western hunter gatherer populations. Like 90% or something? The LBK farmers had very little WHG ancestry for example.

    But later on in Europe we see a bunch of Neolithic agricultural societies with significantly higher WHG ancestry, and very often with I2a Y-dna haplogroups like the Michelsberg culture, the TRB or the Globular amphora cultures.
    It seems like this occured with the Neolithic populations in France, who I assume them spread across Western Europe. That is assuming that the various WHG rich EEF populations all stem from a common source. Or is this a case of WHG introgressing into EEF societies several times occuring indepedently?

    The Michelsberg and Wartberg cultures were genetically much closer to the WHG rich French Neolithic populations than the preceding LBK related farmer populations. Were those LBK populations mainly replaced, or were they assimilated into the expanding WHG rich EEF populations?

    What do you think was the process behind the WHG introgession into these European farmer populations? Was this is the result of "WHG remant" populations becoming dominant or something? By remnant I mean populations which had very high amounts of WHG autosomal ancestry and WHG paternal haplogroups, but they do not necessarily have to be hunter gatherers still. Potentially still speaking a WHG language though.

    The patrilineal lineages is quite interesting. For the GAC and Funnelbeakers it make sense as they were quite pastoral, but even with the other Neolithic cultures we see a strong prevalence of I2a haplogroups, athough there were a couple of R1bs and a C1a2 as well. This is quite a bit different from the other Neolithic European cultures, which generally had a bit more diversity when it came to Y-dna haplogroups if I'm not mistaken.

    Do the Y-dna haplogroups of these cultures share founder effects? I'm not familiar with I2a subclades, is there a high diversity within the I2 lineages of these cultures or do they mostly share a somewhat "recent" paternal ancestor?

    Some other questions piggybacking off this topic:

    What are all the various regions or material cultures that had this heavy WHG component and y-dna lineages? And perhaps more interestingly, which samples or clusters had a very high amount of WHG ancestry (>50%)?

    I read that the Michelsberg colonists migrating northwards is what lead to the Funnelbeaker culture, is this supported by the genetics of these two cultures? Which populations did they replace/assimilate in the process?

    Do the Funnelbeakers and GAC only have EEF and WHG ancestry, or do they have EHG or SHG (or any EHG/WHG hybrid) ancestry as well? Where did they get their blondism from?

    Thanks in advance everyone. Much appreciated!

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    They just assimilated into their society. At some point different people start to mix.

    The ydna shift is really interesting though and might suggest there is strong link between WHG yDNA and the huge selection/amount of blue eyes.

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    Taking Sardinians as an example blue eyes must have been quite frenquent among EEF folks.

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    The resurgence of HG ancestry and Y-DNA was most likely due to male-biased admixture from areas that were marginal or unsuitable for agriculture, where remaining HG populations survived. The specific process leading to the HG resurgence likely involved both peaceful coexistence and conflict. Worthy of note is that it happened independently in Iberia, Central Europe, and Italy, the Balkans, and southern Scandinavia to a lesser extent. Central Scandinavia and the Pontic-Caspian steppe arguably also seem to have undergone the same dynamic, though to a greater extent (although EEFs were never a majority in the steppe and no culture distinct from that of the HGs has been found, at least not yet). As for specific nature of HG admixture, there was surely some EHG admixture, seeing as preceding HGs were mixtures of WHG and EHG. The EHG admixture level was higher in GAC, as the HGs that predated it had higher EHG than those which preceded TRB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    They just assimilated into their society. At some point different people start to mix.

    The ydna shift is really interesting though and might suggest there is strong link between WHG yDNA and the huge selection/amount of blue eyes.
    Why wouldn't the Neolithic farmers have selected for the blue eyes of WHG women as well though? It can't be as simple as blue eyes only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Why wouldn't the Neolithic farmers have selected for the blue eyes of WHG women as well though? It can't be as simple as blue eyes only.
    Or maybe Neolithic women were Queens?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Taking Sardinians as an example blue eyes must have been quite frenquent among EEF folks.
    Weren't the Neolithic Europeans from published papers typically brown eyed? I suspect some positive selection going on with the Sardinians as many in the north carry a pre-EEF lineage I2-M26 (I realize the founder effect is younger) and might have passed along the blue eyes.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Weren't the Neolithic Europeans from published papers typically brown eyed? I suspect some positive selection going on with the Sardinians as many in the north carry a pre-EEF lineage I2-M26 and might have passed along the blue eyes.
    No idea but watching random pics and videos from Sardinians they look very fair and blue eyed for south euro standards.But modern Sardinians besides their EEF admixture who covers most of their autosomal DNA they also have some extra Steppe DNA(not much).

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    It could be a situation like modern British Columbia. BC was settled by Europeans less than 150 years ago and very quickly became 95% of the population. While there was almost no violence towards the indigenous peoples, diseases wiped out 80% of their populations. They remained the majority only in remote communities.

    Now, 150 years later, those populations are growing again and have a higher birth-rate than non-natives. Now, as in old Europe, agriculture and modern life mean these populations will no longer be constrained by the hunter-gatherer cycles. Some First Nations in this province have seen their population increase by almost 1000% in those 150 years (only now regaining and soon surpassing their historic populations).

    If it weren't for ongoing massive immigration, the First Nations resurgence here would be much more obvious. It would be quite like in Europe thousands of years ago, perhaps. The still significant European majority, in that scenario, would continue to blend together with them. There would be more hunter-gatherer DNA at the end of the great mixing than at the beginning.
    Last edited by brendan; 11-02-2020 at 02:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    Or maybe Neolithic women were Queens?
    Not exactly sure what you mean by that. They could not all have been Queens even if any such position existed in any of those societies.

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