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Thread: Greek Discussion Thread

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greekscholar View Post
    Yes, I think I do. One of his lines is a Phanariot name, so I wondered if he could have gotten the admix through having a more cosmopolitan ancestry, but he has no record of anything beyond Ikaria and Samos.


    Target: Ikaria/Samos_scaled
    Distance: 1.2634% / 0.01263423 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    18.6 TUR_Barcin_C
    14.4 DEU_Singen_EIA
    13.8 DEU_MA_o
    12.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    11.6 Levant_Yehud_IBA
    10.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    9.8 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
    5.0 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o1
    3.6 PAK_Saidu_Sharif_H_o


    Target: Ikaria/Samos_scaled
    Distance: 1.0232% / 0.01023181
    27.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
    18.8 UKR_N_o
    14.8 DEU_Singen_EIA
    10.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    9.2 DEU_MA_o
    5.4 Levant_Yehud_IBA
    4.6 TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC
    4.2 TUR_Barcin_C
    3.0 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
    2.0 PAK_Saidu_Sharif_H_o

    I have permission to give out his kit number, so here it is. I am including mine too in case anyone wants to play around with it.

    Ikaria/Samos_scaled,0.10927,0.144205,-0.021873,-0.045543,0.006463,-0.016176,0.00282,0.002077,0.002045,0.020957,0.0077 95,0.005695,-0.00223,0.005505,-0.015065,-0.017104,-0.010691,-0.003421,0.004902,-0.008004,-0.006863,-0.000247,0.001972,-0.003374,-0.010538

    GS_family(Fourni/Ikaria/Samos):GS(Fourni/Ikaria/Samos),0.111547,0.150298,-0.00528,-0.047804,0.015695,-0.013945,0.00376,0.001846,-0.000409,0.016219,0.002761,-0.002548,0.005054,0.002477,-0.020901,-0.005436,0.009518,-0.000507,-0.000377,-0.001376,-0.001747,0.000371,-0.000123,0.006868,0.002874
    Does it really need to be Gypsy dont Armenians also have a little bit of South Asian dna?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    Does it really need to be Gypsy dont Armenians also have a little bit of South Asian dna?
    Nope!!!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    Does it really need to be Gypsy dont Armenians also have a little bit of South Asian dna?
    Good question. The coords. are there if you want to try and model. The South Asian pops naturally in "all ancient" and "all modern" models. It is also visible on GEDmatch calculators. It is pretty clearly true South Asian at about 1-2% IMO, and the idea that Greeks can have Roma ancestry isn't odd, there are lots of that group in Greece, and in the Ottoman Empire before that.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Nope!!!
    I am sorry i dont think i frased it right i mean iran neolithic type stuff but maybe it shows it as south asian. He should maybe try running with ganj dareh and andamanese to see if it is really south asian ie gypsy or something like western iran/eastern armenia.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    I am sorry i dont think i frased it right i mean iran neolithic type stuff but maybe it shows it as south asian. He should maybe try running with ganj dareh and andamanese to see if it is really south asian ie gypsy or something like western iran/eastern armenia.
    There is not south asian admixture in the west eurasia.Most people with such admixture has prolly some distant Gypsy-Roman related admixture.

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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    There is not south asian admixture in the west eurasia.Most people with such admixture has prolly some distant Gypsy-Roman related admixture.
    Thats exactly what i am saying maybe its not south asian at all.
    Target: Roma_Balkans
    Distance: 5.8428% / 0.05842820
    36.4 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    30.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    19.0 IND_Great_Andamanese_100BP
    8.4 GEO_CHG
    6.2 LUX_Loschbour

    Target: Greek_Crete
    Distance: 4.2818% / 0.04281800
    54.4 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    18.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    17.0 GEO_CHG
    8.2 Levant_Natufian
    1.8 LUX_Loschbour

    Target: Greek_Central_Anatolia
    Distance: 3.9550% / 0.03955005
    50.2 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    22.0 GEO_CHG
    20.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    7.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian_Hemsheni
    Distance: 4.3371% / 0.04337089
    36.6 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    36.4 GEO_CHG
    18.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    8.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian
    Distance: 4.3373% / 0.04337262
    37.2 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    25.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    24.8 GEO_CHG
    12.2 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Iranian_Fars
    Distance: 3.6957% / 0.03695725
    42.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    28.2 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    15.8 GEO_CHG
    8.8 Levant_Natufian
    3.6 IND_Great_Andamanese_100BP
    1.4 LUX_Loschbour

    Target: Parsi_India
    Distance: 4.4006% / 0.04400625
    48.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    23.8 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    13.4 IND_Great_Andamanese_100BP
    7.6 GEO_CHG
    5.6 Levant_Natufian
    1.4 LUX_Loschbour

    Target: Parsi_Pakistan
    Distance: 4.4654% / 0.04465393
    47.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    23.2 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    12.6 IND_Great_Andamanese_100BP
    8.6 GEO_CHG
    6.2 Levant_Natufian
    1.8 LUX_Loschbour

    Target: Ikaria/Samos_scaled
    Distance: 5.3125% / 0.05312539
    55.2 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    17.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    17.0 GEO_CHG
    9.2 Levant_Natufian
    1.0 LUX_Loschbour

    See what i am saying?

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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    I am sorry i dont think i frased it right i mean iran neolithic type stuff but maybe it shows it as south asian. He should maybe try running with ganj dareh and andamanese to see if it is really south asian ie gypsy or something like western iran/eastern armenia.
    This sample is pretty standard for a Greek Islander except the South Asian. Marko's father shows direct South Asian as well in most models. The Roma came to the islands for years to trade, fix things, and hang around for awhile before moving on. I don't know if they still do or not. Roma were around in Ottoman times as well, frequently as members of the army, or army camps.

    The West Asian and historic Iranic influences are clearly seen in the other and not confused.

    Target: Ikaria/Samos_scaled
    Distance: 2.2764% / 0.02276419
    52.8 Greek_Crete
    9.6 Samaritan
    9.4 Sicilian_East
    9.2 Greek_Trabzon
    7.8 Sardinian
    5.8 Italian_Lombardy
    2.8 Greek_Thessaly
    2.6 Gupta


    Target: Chris_scaled(Peloponnese/Crete/AsiaMinor)
    Distance: 1.3349% / 0.01334899
    45.2 Greek_Smyrna
    14.6 Greek_Crete
    14.6 Macedonian
    7.6 Sardinian
    6.4 Iranian_Mazandarani
    6.2 Italian_Umbria
    4.2 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
    1.2 Greek_Trabzon


    Target: GS_family(Fourni/Ikaria/Samos):GS(Fourni/Ikaria/Samos)
    Distance: 1.8980% / 0.01898027
    37.0 Greek_Smyrna
    17.4 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    11.8 Albanian
    11.0 Samaritan
    8.0 Cypriot
    6.4 Italian_Calabria
    4.0 Sardinian
    2.4 Turkish_Trabzon
    2.0 BedouinB


    Target: GS_family(Fourni/Ikaria/Samos):GS_Dad(Fourni/Ikaria/Samos)
    Distance: 1.8263% / 0.01826314
    58.2 Greek_Peloponnese
    20.0 Greek_Smyrna
    7.2 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    6.8 BedouinB
    3.8 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    2.2 Lebanese_Christian
    1.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    0.8 Sardinian

    Target: 23abc_scaled(Kalymnos)
    Distance: 2.1504% / 0.02150415
    40.2 Italian_Apulia
    18.2 Iraqi_Jew
    13.8 Greek_Thessaly
    9.6 Turkish_Trabzon
    5.6 Italian_Lazio
    5.0 Karaite_Egypt
    4.6 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    2.8 Moroccan_Jew
    0.2 Samaritan

    Target: Markos_family(Samos/Pelopennese)Markos_Father(Samos)
    Distance: 2.8832% / 0.02883174
    36.4 Greek_Trabzon
    18.2 Serbian
    15.6 Greek_Crete
    10.4 Sardinian
    8.8 Italian_Lombardy
    6.0 Greek_Thessaly
    3.6 Italian_Liguria
    0.8 Gupta
    0.2 Wichi

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  11. #28
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    Maybe it is Gypsy and i am pulling stuff out my ass I am just saying it doesnt have to be.

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    snip
    See what i am saying?
    I don't know how to model Asian populations that far east and south, but the fit is very bad for Ikaria/Samos(are you using scaled?). Try this instead. The fit is much better with the PAK reference, although the South Asian source is metal age not neothic. Other Greek samples do not show this except for Markos' father.


    Target: Ikaria/Samos_scaled
    Distance: 3.1972% / 0.03197238
    71.0 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    19.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    7.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    1.0 GEO_CHG
    0.4 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
    0.2 Levant_Natufian



    Target: Ikaria/Samos_scaled
    Distance: 2.9666% / 0.02966632
    71.0 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    17.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    7.0 PAK_Katelai_LBA
    2.8 GEO_CHG
    1.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    0.2 Levant_Natufian

    These samples all have the same choice of South Asian source populations and picked only trace amounts, except Markos's father.


    Target: 23abc_scaled(Kalymnos)
    Distance: 3.1251% / 0.03125087
    69.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    19.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    10.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    0.8 GEO_CHG
    0.2 Levant_Natufian


    Target: GS_family(Fourni/Ikaria/Samos):GS_Dad(Fourni/Ikaria/Samos)
    Distance: 2.7556% / 0.02755641
    51.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    26.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    14.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    4.6 Levant_Natufian
    2.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    0.6 PAK_Arkotkila_IA


    Target: Greek_Crete
    Distance: 1.7315% / 0.01731489
    67.4 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    21.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    8.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    1.8 Levant_Natufian
    0.8 GEO_CHG


    Target: Markos_family(Samos/Pelopennese)Markos_Father(Samos)
    Distance: 3.4888% / 0.03488781
    48.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    23.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    16.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    8.0 GEO_CHG
    3.8 PAK_Katelai_LBA


    Target: Chris_scaled(Peloponnese/Crete/AsiaMinor)
    Distance: 2.0599% / 0.02059906
    39.0 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    28.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    25.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


    Target: Greek_Smyrna
    Distance: 1.5254% / 0.01525426
    42.4 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    29.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    22.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    4.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    0.8 Levant_Natufian

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    Maybe it is Gypsy and i am pulling stuff out my ass I am just saying it doesnt have to be.
    One family in his line has an important Greek last name, so maybe his ancestor was cosmopolitan Ottoman and picked it up that way. I don't know either. South Asian amounts like this exist, but are not very common, so something is going on. I think the calculators are correct in any case.

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