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Thread: Greek Discussion Thread

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    They are more ancient and native in their lands.They derive much of their ancestry from BA and IA populations.Pontic Greeks thought they require something 'Greek' and something 'Levantine' in their autosomal.But in general,mainland Greeks are more affected from barbarian migrations.Cypriots are also native and they didn't influenced by other people,you can inclunde them as well.Anatolian Greeks those from the west coast pretty much died or turkificized by the turkish beyliks.Actually most of Anatolia turkificized and even the majority of Central Anatolian Greeks,Pontian Greek and those from the west Coast have converted to Islam either with Sultanate of Rum or later with the Ottoman Dynasty with devshirme.After the battle of Manzikert pretty much the biggest part of Anatolia started to Turkificized.It was the first phase of the Turkification..
    Are Anatolian Greeks Anatolians and Caucasians with worth mentioning Greek input and mainland Greeks Greeks with worth mentioning Slavic and Balkan input?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chatzianastasoglou View Post
    Are Anatolian Greeks Anatolians and Caucasians with worth mentioning Greek input and mainland Greeks Greeks with worth mentioning Slavic and Balkan input?
    I think it depends on how you model the samples in G25. Personally I have my own views.. in what exactly modern Greeks can considered n terms of autosomal DNA. Someone else might have a different opinion than me. But if you ask me, I think none is pure Greek, nor I believe that the Greek DNA is the main bulk of our autosomal. But thats me and I don't want to generalize. For mainland Greeks I think if you remove the Northern element they coming in some way more west Asian. Suggesting that Greece before the Slavic migrations was in some way more west Asian influenced.As for Anatolian Greeks it depends. Eastern Pontians are mostly Caucasian+Anatolian while Cappadocian Greeks are mostly Anatolian BA/IA derived with secondary influences from the transcaucasus etc. But thats my own opinion, it dosnt mean nessecary that I am right.I have modeled the samples millions of times, with different models.. including samples from various Greek users here who have shared their coordinates. I think modern Greeks with exception Pontics, Cappadocians and Cypriots are in some way homogenous. The diffrence is between mainland and islands where there, west Asian input increases and Slavic/Balkanic admixture in some way decreases but still it is there, thought in lower amounts compared to those from mainland. South Peloponnese is the center and brings the balance between the mainland spectrum and to Islands. It is sad that we don't have the samples from Tsakonians you would see that they were southern shifted compared to other Peloponesians.Maniots as well... But sadly Stamatayanopoulos did not shared these samples.

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Johnny ola For This Useful Post:

     Chatzianastasoglou (12-03-2020),  Greekscholar (12-03-2020),  trdbr1234 (12-03-2020),  xripkan (12-03-2020)

  4. #123
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    My opinion is that most of the ancestry for every modern Greek group can be described as Hellenistic. We always think in terms of ancient Greece but I think the Hellenistic world can help us understand better the ancestry of modern Greeks. The core of the Hellenistic world which evolved later as the core of the Eastern Roman/Byzantine world was consisted of ancient Greece, Southern Balkans (southern of Jirecek line) and the whole Anatolia region. From the mix of these ancient peoples comes the biggest part of ancestry for every modern Greek group. In my opinion every Greek has ancestry from all these areas just in different ratios.
    Mainland Greece has later assimilated Slavs,peoples from Northern Blakans and other highly Steppe-admixed peoples from the North but the biggest part of their ancestry remained Hellenistic while this input is very low among Greek Islanders.
    I think also that a part of Steppe ancestry for Central Anatolians is Slavic since we know that thousands of Slavs were transfered there by Byzantine emperors.
    Last edited by xripkan; 12-03-2020 at 06:32 PM.
    Distance: 2.2672% / 0.02267223
    Target: Christos_scaled
    78.1 update_Peloponnese(Lakonia+Arkadia+older academic samples)
    21.9 Greek_Thessaly

  5. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to xripkan For This Useful Post:

     Aspar (12-03-2020),  Chatzianastasoglou (12-03-2020),  Greekscholar (12-03-2020),  Sorcelow (12-03-2020),  trdbr1234 (12-05-2020)

  6. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    An unrelated question with the previous topics discussed.
    In general do we share IBD or most probably IBS with any Jewish group ?
    I Was looking through my friend's list on ftdna family finder and out of his 550 matches, around 80 (could be more,could be less ) have definitely jewish ancestry. From these matches some are common with his mother (dna tested ) and the rest obviously would be with his father (still untested ) . Of them some would be common among both of his parents had his father been tested.
    Closest among my friend's jewish matches is an old man (70+ ) who is characterized as 2nd Cousin - 4th Cousin with 45 cM shared and 17 cM being the longest block. Not a single common match of Greek origin with him.
    Anyone who can help me make sense of this ? whether it's a real connection or not ?
    Since I made the post above, I phased his father's kit through Gedmatch and indeed it's seems to be a phenomenon mostly connected with him as the old man mentioned above showed up on his one-to-many list . Further down some other people with possible jewish ancestry too,don't know how many exactly but enough to produce the biggest cluster among his clusters using his phased kit with the clustering toolkit. I adjusted the lower cM threshold in the range of 7-10 cM and while the list obviously got shorter each time the pattern didn't change.

    Worth noting the mentioned old man comes up as almost pure Ashkenazi Jew, maybe with a small middle eastern jew shift, on all of the available calcs .

    All the results of the clustering toolkit for my friend's and his father's (phased) profile are saved and I have his permission to share them with anyone willing to take a look at them.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to lacreme For This Useful Post:

     Greekscholar (12-03-2020)

  8. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Anyone who can help me make sense of this ? whether it's a real connection or not ?
    Since I made the post above, I phased his father's kit through Gedmatch and indeed it's seems to be a phenomenon mostly connected with him as the old man mentioned above showed up on his one-to-many list . Further down some other people with possible jewish ancestry too,don't know how many exactly but enough to produce the biggest cluster among his clusters using his phased kit with the clustering toolkit. I adjusted the lower cM threshold in the range of 7-10 cM and while the list obviously got shorter each time the pattern didn't change.

    Worth noting the mentioned old man comes up as almost pure Ashkenazi Jew, maybe with a small middle eastern jew shift, on all of the available calcs .

    All the results of the clustering toolkit for my friend's and his father's (phased) profile are saved and I have his permission to share them with anyone willing to take a look at them.
    Mr. Brook on GEDmatch forums is probably the best person to answer this question. He helps people triangulate Jewish DNA segments to find trace ancestry. A 45cM match is worth investigating.

  9. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by xripkan View Post
    My opinion is that most of the ancestry for every modern Greek group can be described as Hellenistic. We always think in terms of ancient Greece but I think the Hellenistic world can help us understand better the ancestry of modern Greeks. The core of the Hellenistic world which evolved later as the core of the Eastern Roman/Byzantine world was consisted of ancient Greece, Southern Balkans (southern of Jirecek line) and the whole Anatolia region. From the mix of these ancient peoples comes the biggest part of ancestry for every modern Greek group. In my opinion every Greek has ancestry from all these areas just in different ratios.
    Mainland Greece has later assimilated Slavs,peoples from Northern Blakans and other highly Steppe-admixed peoples from the North but the biggest part of their ancestry remained Hellenistic while this input is very low among Greek Islanders.
    I think also that a part of Steppe ancestry for Central Anatolians is Slavic since we know that thousands of Slavs were transfered there by Byzantine emperors.
    Interesting that you have an Iranic ydna. Johnny ola should be happy.

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     xripkan (12-03-2020)

  11. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greekscholar View Post
    Mr. Brook on GEDmatch forums is probably the best person to answer this question. He helps people triangulate Jewish DNA segments to find trace ancestry. A 45cM match is worth investigating.
    Thanks! Is there any megathread or should I contact him directly ?

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to lacreme For This Useful Post:

     Greekscholar (12-03-2020)

  13. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Thanks! Is there any megathread or should I contact him directly ?
    There are several large "Am I part Jewish" threads there. You can also use the PM function, Mr. Brook is about 10% of all posts on that forum, so you will easily find his contributions.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Greekscholar For This Useful Post:

     lacreme (12-03-2020)

  15. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greekscholar View Post
    There are several large "Am I part Jewish" threads there. You can also use the PM function, Mr. Brook is about 10% of all posts on that forum, so you will easily find his contributions.
    Is mr. Kevin Alan Brook registered on Anthrogenica forum? Unfortunately I can not contact him on email now

  16. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    Interesting that you have an Iranic ydna. Johnny ola should be happy.
    It is uncommon among Greek people. I have gathered some data about it and I have concluded that it comes from a Sarmatian group from Northern Balkans that was very possibly assimilated by Goths. Most of them migrated to Western Europe but a small minority stayed in Thrace and NW Anatolia.
    Distance: 2.2672% / 0.02267223
    Target: Christos_scaled
    78.1 update_Peloponnese(Lakonia+Arkadia+older academic samples)
    21.9 Greek_Thessaly

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     Coldmountains (12-03-2020)

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