Greek Discussion Thread

[TonyC]

I came in contact with him...
Turns out it really seems to be a genuine connection of the old man of Ashkenazi heritage with my friend's father, most probably through one of the pontic greeks with heritage from a 15th century jew that was discussed on another thread here.
strangely though he seems to be too close (on ftdna family finder) for someone who is at least 500 years separated...I know that they are a highly endogamous population but still...He shows further up on the list from a known 4th cousin relative of my friend and just below a partially Cretan distant relative of his mother.

The general consensus that mainland Greeks (aside from Maniots and SE Peloponnesians) are Balkan shifted is only partially correct. Yes many mainlanders cluster closely with Albanians but then there’s a significant West Euro shift towards Central Italy attributed to heavy ENF vs Steppe composition. Honestly other Balkanic pops including Bulgarians or Serbs don’t show much affinity with mainland Greeks unless we get specific to the Northern, outlying regions of Greek Macedonia or Thrace.

[TonyC]

Here is another PCA of me and members of my family. Even though its based on gedmatch, it mirrors what the G25 has produced nearly identically, with my sister and I being at the northern end of the Peloponnesian cluster, and my mom further south. I've also included the results of some forum members and other Peloponnesians.

The general consensus that mainland Greeks (aside from Maniots and SE Peloponnesians) are Balkan shifted is only partially correct. Yes many mainlanders cluster closely with Albanians but then there’s a significant West Euro shift towards Central Italy attributed to heavy ENF vs Steppe composition. Honestly other Balkanic pops including Bulgarians or Serbs don’t show much affinity with mainland Greeks unless we get specific to the Northern, outlying regions of Greek Macedonia or Thrace

[dosas]

Albanians are more Western Euro shifted and Central-North Italian shifted compared to Greeks.

[TonyC]

[QUOTE=dosas;725443]Albanians are more Western Euro shifted and Central-North Italian shifted compared to Greeks.
I hear what your saying and in general that’s true because Albanians are much more homogeneous but if you use Thessaly as a proxy for mainland Greece and look at closest populations you’ll notice a strong shift towards Central Italy vs. SE Balkans.

[Johnny ola]

Albanians are more western shifted because they are less west asian admixed than Greeks.Also Central-North Italians have different steppe compared to Greek and Albanians witch is eastern european.The reason why some Greeks and Albanians clushter with central Italians is simply because of their similar Farmer/Steppe ratios nothing else.

[xripkan]

And except the similar Barcin/Steppe ratio it is also the lower -compared to other Greek Mainlanders- Iran N/CHG components. Maybe some parts of Mainland Greece received lower Anatolian input and the Steppe+Barcin combination brings them closer to Central Italy and Tuscan but I think in many cases it is related to Arvanites and Vlachs.

[TonyC]

Albanians are more western shifted because they are less west asian admixed than Greeks.Also Central-North Italians have different steppe compared to Greek and Albanians witch is eastern european.The reason why some Greeks and Albanians clushter with central Italians is simply because of their similar Farmer/Steppe ratios nothing else.

So if we’re talking about autosomal geneticl clusters wouldn’t you say that Albanians, Mainland Greeks (other than deep Maniots, Tsakonians), and Central Italians are genetically similar even if we separate them out on a PCA?

[Johnny ola]

So if we’re talking about autosomal geneticl clusters wouldn’t you say that Albanians, Mainland Greeks (other than deep Maniots, Tsakonians), and Central Italians are genetically similar even if we separate them out on a PCA?

South Albanians and Mainland Greeks do not have big diffrences.It is that Albanians in some way are less west asian admixed.As for Central Italians, they are between North and South Italians.You can inclunde them in the 'east med' spectrum.But keep in mind that Italians steppe is not eastern european shifted(with exception Friuli Venezia Giulia).Italians actually have Italic and Celto-Germanic steppe.Thought in Apulia and some other parts of South Italy there is slightly some Slavic admixture prolly coming from Arbëreshë and Griko folks.As for Mani and Tsakonia, without samples we cannot say much.But reading Stamatoyannopoulos papers we ending up in the conclusion that they are between Islanders and mainland.They might be in some way close to the recent Laconian samples.

[TuaMan]

What's the best current proxy for the kind of the steppe ancestry that exists in Albanians and Greeks?

[xripkan]

So if we’re talking about autosomal geneticl clusters wouldn’t you say that Albanians, Mainland Greeks (other than deep Maniots, Tsakonians), and Central Italians are genetically similar even if we separate them out on a PCA?

Many Greek Mainlanders are closer to Molise/Abruzzo cluster. In my opinion it is related as I mentioned above to the Iran N/CHG input. For example a Greek who is just Steppe+Barcin (with minimal Iran N/CHG) can be very close to Central Italians. Another Greek equally Steppe admixed who is Steppe+lower Barcin+some Iran N/CHG is closer to Abruzzo/Molise cluster.

In general I have noticed that the Greeks who are mostly Barcin+Steppe are closer to Albania and Central/North Italy and not Eastern Balkan shifted.