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Thread: Greek Discussion Thread

  1. #701
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    I now have the TT603 defter of the Peloponnese in my possession. Even though my knowledge of the Ottoman ziyakat script is limited, I am working on translating some pages, using Liakopoulos' previous work on the 1462 defter as a guide.

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  3. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greekscholar View Post
    I had to relabel those particular Imperial samples so they would all appear as separate source populations in R5P. I hand selected a few of the most Aegean-like since I wanted to try a model that uses individual samples, not averages.

    The samples I picked out were not as close to the Cypriot average as the ones you are posting above, so that is probably why the fit is not as good for you. My main goal was to see if Mainlanders, especially, could be modeled as Roman-Aegean like profiles + the migration samples.
    They are exactly as you said.Imperial Rome plus Migration period folks.The only thing left is to see how these 'migration' populations that arrived in Greece were in terms of autosomal DNA.If they were close to modern South Slavs or more northern shifted(like Belarussians-Ukranians).

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  5. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    They are exactly as you said.Imperial Rome plus Migration period folks.The only thing left is to see how these 'migration' populations that arrived in Greece were in terms of autosomal DNA.If they were close to modern South Slavs or more northern shifted(like Belarussians-Ukranians).
    I think the model works really well for the Mainland samples. The fit is closer than what I got when I tried the same method with individual Hun_Avar and Hun_Szolad samples + Roman Imperial individuals. The island averages were not as picky, a combination of various Aegean-like Romans plus any of our existing Steppe proxies leads to close fits.

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  7. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greekscholar View Post
    I think the model works really well for the Mainland samples. The fit is closer than what I got when I tried the same method with individual Hun_Avar and Hun_Szolad samples + Roman Imperial individuals. The island averages were not as picky, a combination of various Aegean-like Romans plus any of our existing Steppe proxies leads to close fits.
    Ye.We should wait for medieval/Byzantine Greece samples...i think better fits/models will shown up.But still,using these new 'migration' samples and also the samples from Hungary you can have decent fits/models for modern Greeks.

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  9. #705
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    Cool

    Speaking of Byzantine Greek samples...
    Here's a recent discovery in Thessaloniki of the remains of probably 200+ children and infants who died around the time of the Plague of Justinian...

    The chance of ever getting dna data from them is slim at best, isn't it ?

    https://cityportal.gr/thessaloniki-d...ia-sta-kastra/
    Last edited by lacreme; 04-29-2021 at 07:49 PM.

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  11. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Speaking of Byzantine Greek samples...
    Here's a recent discovery in Thessaloniki of the remains of probably 200+ children and infants who died around the time of the Plague of Justinian...

    The chance of ever getting dna data from them is slim at best, isn't it ?

    https://cityportal.gr/thessaloniki-d...ia-sta-kastra/
    In Τhessaloniki before a week ago they also found a Gothic(East Germanic) warrior.

    https://www.cnn.gr/focus/story/26395...moy-to-390-m-x
    https://www.naftemporiki.gr/story/17...ntro-tis-polis

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  13. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    In Τhessaloniki before a week ago they also found a Gothic(East Germanic) warrior.

    https://www.cnn.gr/focus/story/26395...moy-to-390-m-x
    https://www.naftemporiki.gr/story/17...ntro-tis-polis
    Interesting! I wonder how many Gothic graves have they excavated all these years inside the borders of the modern Greek state. It's not the first I suppose.

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  15. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Interesting! I wonder how many Gothic graves have they excavated all these years inside the borders of the modern Greek state. It's not the first I suppose.
    There was also a Gothic Raid in Sparti.Some Byzantine Generals used/had in their army Goths for mercenaries.

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  17. #709
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    Hey everyone,
    Hope all is well. I wanted to post an update of my original post that I somewhat erroneously titled "Pontic Greek R-U152" quite a while ago. With the help of a lot of you guys, I now have a better grasp of my background and am a little less out of my element in these discussions. A few positive things have helped me with my research in the past few weeks including a confirmed 3rd cousin of mine who shares my surname taking a DNA test. He is the first person I have ever had to compare with in matching results. I've also been able to find some better information about the village of my father's paternal family called Neochori outside of Constantinopoli. Corresponding with DNA matches has also led me to a refugee database for Pontian/Anatolian Greeks where I have found actual family members and a possible source of my surname. Finally, I recently added a 23andme test for myself that for me, seems to be the most on point and helpful in supporting my theories. Just a quick recap: my father's maternal family are 100% Pontians from Giresun, although speaking to someone who had researched my family tree thoroughly on the Greek Refugee database, it looks like a part of my great grandmother's family registered in our Greek village as coming from Gumushane so there may be something to that. My father's paternal family were from outside of Constantinopoli as I mentioned earlier. Most tests give my father something like a 70/30 West Asian/Greece and the Balkans ratio. Interestingly enough, I get about 40/10 on 23andme (keep in mind my mother is fully Eastern European). People have done my father's G25 and told me it's something like 52% Greek_Trabzon 36% Greek_Central_Macedonia and 12% Greek_Central_Anatolia. Someone told me that the Greek stuff could be Peloponnesian or Thracian, and that there could have been an ancestor coming from the Poli family that came from the east somewhere from Pontus or Central Anatolia. I think all of these things fit given some of the new developments.

    1) 23andme regions seem to be pretty spot on for what I know about my known family. My mother's small region in Poland is shaded, as is Giresun for my Anatolian results. My Greek DNA shows the Peloponnesus as shaded #1 on a list of 4 other regions. (2.Thrace 3.South Agean 4.Greek Macedonia. It also has Bulgaria as a general region with no subregions) We have no knowledge of Peloponnesian or other Balkan Greeks, but then again we have no knowledge whatsoever of that branch of our family. But I found a specific document listing excerpts from several historical accounts, that have the founders of the village Neochori Xili as being from Tas Kioprou Nicomedias. People mentioned this last time I posted, and this makes more sense given that everyone who I match with from the village, have very little but more often than not 0% West Asian DNA. They all have Greek or Balkan DNA. Someone sent me an article about another Neochori once, that discussed its origin. This Neochori (of course there have to be like 20 places with the same name) was Neochori Nicomedias, not very far from Tas Kioprou Nicomedias where the founders of our Neochori were from. Neochori Nicomedias was settled by Peloponnesian and Epirote Greeks in something like the 17th century. The history says that the Greeks of Tas Kioprou--who may have also been Peloponnesians--left Tas Kioprou because it had a very large Turkish community. They founded a village close to Sile which became known in the area for being 100% Greek, no Turks at all, and for having their own guerilla unit that protected Christians in the region. People started coming there from other parts of the region for this region, including some from the east.
    2)My surname in the Greek refugee database has only 5 entries. 3 out of 5 were located in Neochori and connect with our family history and matches. One woman came to the same village in Greece my grandfather was from, with I believe the same father as my great grandfather. I'm confident she is a relative and she came from Heraclea Pontica. The last person was from Gerze and she had a Cappadocian first name: "Nazli." Whether we are related to this woman's husband is hard to say at this moment. But I think it is a possibility. Being related to 4 out of 5 people in the database makes me think it's likely. It seems to be a small family.
    3)My 3rd cousin who shares my last name, has quite a few mutual matches with my father who have a connection with Pontus and some more Central Anatolian locations. Now of course, not too many people have extensive family trees with detailed information, but a few of them have a connection to Tokat and Akdagmadeni/Yozgat. These places do come up quite a bit on trees in general, along with Samsun areas. 23andme besides giving me Giresun province shaded in completely, also gives me 2.Samsun 3. Sivas 4.Tokat. I'm not confident pinpointing my paternal line to any of these places, but I feel comfortable believing my paternal line came to Neochori Xili from Pontus or North central Anatolia in general. Now add to this the fact that I have ydna that is very likely Galatian from R-Z36 (which is said to have produced the Gauls of Gaul, the Belgae, and the Cisalpine Celts) it all starts to gel a bit. Anyways, these are some of the new developments. Any thoughts?

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  19. #710
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    Duplicated my post. Whoops

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