Page 19 of 20 FirstFirst ... 917181920 LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 198

Thread: Langobard study has S1194, U106, P312 migrating from Sth Baltic to Italy in 600AD.

  1. #181
    Registered Users
    Posts
    906
    Sex
    Location
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Ethnicity
    Norse-Gael/Celto-Germani
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    U106DF98KingsCluster
    mtDNA (M)
    T2b2bIrish/Scan

    Ireland Scotland Germany Norway England Northern Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Stolfi View Post
    Thanks! That's very interesting. An Italian guy from a FB page that I belong to that has the same last name as I do showed the church records that I found from the 1630's where they have the name as Stolfo as opposed to Stolfi and he said that the church records were written in a form of Latin. I'm not sure if that would make a difference with there being an i or an o at the end of the name. Mostly all of the last names in the church records from the 1600's had "o" as the last syllable and then changed to "i" in the 1700's. I also didn't know about that area being created by the Longobard migrants.

    My last name is really Germanic in nature and I always wondered why. When I tested my brother on 23andme and his haplogroup came back they had a brief story linked to his result and it was about King Aistulf of the Lombards. When I looked up more about the last name Aistulf - it appears that my surname is derived from it. I guess as more and more people get their y-dna tested, some answers may come to light. I just mailed out my brother's test to FTDNA - I bought the Y-111 and will just upgrade if needed.
    My post was not 100 percent ydna, but if recent enough you may see autosomal links with people from certain areas of Italy where you paternal came from... I plan to try and do the with mine in Germany and with Irish exile matching it's always the same families from the same areas so helpful in that regard.
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Johann Adam Weber/Weaver born 1784 in Pennsylvania. Sergeant, US 17th Inf, War of 1812: R1b-U106-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004... FGC14817 shared with 6drif-3 - one of the "Headless" Roman Gladiator/Soldiers! Father Captain Martin Weber b. 1739 in Hesse(?), Germany, d. 1804 Dauphin, PA.

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget O'Danagher b. 1843 Lorrha/Dorrha, Ireland - T2b2b - Pagan Migrant Icelander SSG-A3 (grave 4) - Sílastađir in Eyjafjarđarsýsla, North Iceland is T2b2b.

  2. #182
    Registered Users
    Posts
    840
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a CTS11962+L1029+
    mtDNA (M)
    H80

    European Union Germany Italy
    there is an update to the previous discussion about the arrival from scadanan aka scandinvia
    samples from wielbark-kowalewko have turned up confirming a scandinavian migration for the wielbark culture (Γύθωνες GOTHONES) thus potentially a good ref. for scandinavian derived germanic groups

    in comparison to the longobards* the longobards would then not have arrived from scandinavia
     


    at best (as suggesting by history) an elbgermanic people from the lowerelbe (lüneburger zone)
    rendering the "scadanan" narrative indeed as either an MP myth or adopting from the gepids (goth kindreds)

    *overlapper is SZ2
    only longobards used that had xTSI and IBS
    GENO2.0 51SEURO 19WCEURO 13SCANDINAVIA 5ASIAMINOR 4EEURO 4GB/IRELAND 3ARABIA myOrigins 26ITA.PENINSULA 13GREECE&BALKANS 12SARDINIA 18GREATBRITAIN 14IRELAND 10CEN.EUROPE 8SCANDINAVIA DNA.Land 49NWEURO 27SEURO 13MED.ISLANDER 11SARDINIAN myHeritage 51.8NWEURO 33.2ITALIAN 7.9GREEK/S.ITALY 7.1BALKAN gencove 29NITALY 19EMED 15NBRITISLES 12SWEURO 10NCEURO 9SCANDINAVIA 6NEEURO GenePlaza 54.4NWEURO 37.6GREEK/ALBANIAN 5.6WASIAN 2.4SWASIA LivingDNA 70.7SGERMANIC 16.3TUSCANY 9.2N.ITALY 3.8SARDINIA

  3. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to alexfritz For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-19-2021),  altvred (04-19-2021),  Bollox79 (04-19-2021),  Cascio (04-19-2021),  Dewsloth (04-19-2021),  etrusco (04-19-2021),  JMcB (04-19-2021),  Megalophias (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021),  sheepslayer (04-19-2021),  VladimirTaraskin (04-19-2021)

  4. #183
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,718
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    there is an update to the previous discussion about the arrival from scadanan aka scandinvia
    samples from wielbark-kowalewko have turned up confirming a scandinavian migration for the wielbark culture (Γύθωνες GOTHONES) thus potentially a good ref. for scandinavian derived germanic groups

    in comparison to the longobards* the longobards would then not have arrived from scandinavia
     


    at best (as suggesting by history) an elbgermanic people from the lowerelbe (lüneburger zone)
    rendering the "scadanan" narrative indeed as either an MP myth or adopting from the gepids (goth kindreds)

    *overlapper is SZ2
    only longobards used that had xTSI and IBS
    The Kowalewko samples might be locally admixed though, pulling them into an Eastern direction. I think there are still some unknowns, but probably you are right.

  5. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     alexfritz (04-19-2021),  altvred (04-19-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  JMcB (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021),  Michalis Moriopoulos (04-19-2021),  sheepslayer (04-19-2021)

  6. #184
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,760
    Sex
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-L1280>FGC41205
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2(b)
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a-L1029>YP517
    mtDNA (P)
    H5a2

    Poland European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    The Kowalewko samples might be locally admixed though, pulling them into an Eastern direction. I think there are still some unknowns, but probably you are right.
    There is also a possibility that not all Germanic tribes from Sweden looked the same in that particular time frame. For example, there could have been a significant difference between the tribes located in SW Sweden (for example in Scania or Halland) where the legendary ancestors of the Longobards could have lived, and those located on the Eastern or South-Eastern shores from where the Goths are likely to have come to Poland.

  7. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Michał For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-19-2021),  altvred (04-19-2021),  Bygdedweller (04-19-2021),  Cascio (04-19-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  JMcB (04-19-2021),  Riverman (04-19-2021)

  8. #185
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,718
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    There is also a possibility that not all Germanic tribes from Sweden looked the same in that particular time frame. For example, there could have been a significant difference between the tribes located in SW Sweden (for example in Scania or Halland) where the legendary ancestors of the Longobards could have lived, and those located on the Eastern or South-Eastern shores from where the Goths are likely to have come to Poland.
    Indeed, I totally agree. Even if the Baltic and Uralic admixture in Sweden was already there, it might not have spread evenly and I remember from the Viking study that pockets with relatively higher Neolithic derived ancestry still persisted far longer than originally thought. Also among the Vikings age samples from Sweden, the individual differences were quite big, even without the obvious, probably foreign admixed and completely foreign outliers. So yes, you are totally right, there is no reason to assume that at that point in time, already 600-1000 years after the Proto-Germanic core probably swarmed out the first time, all Scandinavian Germanic tribes had exactly the same profile. Going by the data we have already, the contrary seems to be more likely.

  9. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-19-2021),  altvred (04-19-2021),  Cascio (04-19-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  Dewsloth (04-19-2021),  JMcB (04-19-2021),  Michał (04-19-2021)

  10. #186
    Registered Users
    Posts
    570
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Assyrian
    Y-DNA (P)
    G1a
    mtDNA (M)
    I5b1

    Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    There is also a possibility that not all Germanic tribes from Sweden looked the same in that particular time frame. For example, there could have been a significant difference between the tribes located in SW Sweden (for example in Scania or Halland) where the legendary ancestors of the Longobards could have lived, and those located on the Eastern or South-Eastern shores from where the Goths are likely to have come to Poland.
    That seems unlikely to me as this division has not survived among modern day Swedes. The difference today is rather due to recent or semi-recent(Viking era and onward) Finnish input in certain parts of Central and Northern Sweden.
    When did the Goths arrive in Poland and from what period are these samples from? If they are rather late then surely they must've absorbed some natives.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Helves For This Useful Post:

     altvred (04-19-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021)

  12. #187
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,760
    Sex
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-L1280>FGC41205
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2(b)
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a-L1029>YP517
    mtDNA (P)
    H5a2

    Poland European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    That seems unlikely to me as this division has not survived among modern day Swedes.
    If the ancestors of the Longobards (and possibly some other closely related tribes) migrated to Denmark and then further south, their original homeland in SW Sweden could have been taken over by the Gothic-like tribes from further east. Alternatively, it could have been the pressure from the expanding Gothic-like populations in Eastern Sweden that made the ancestors of the Longobards start the southward migration.

  13. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Michał For This Useful Post:

     altvred (04-19-2021),  Bygdedweller (04-19-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  Helves (04-19-2021),  JMcB (04-19-2021),  Riverman (04-19-2021)

  14. #188
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,760
    Sex
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-L1280>FGC41205
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2(b)
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a-L1029>YP517
    mtDNA (P)
    H5a2

    Poland European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    When did the Goths arrive in Poland and from what period are these samples from?
    The Kowalewko samples are mostly from 80-260 AD, and the Goths are believed to have come to Poland in the second half of the 1st century AD.

  15. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Michał For This Useful Post:

     Alain (04-19-2021),  altvred (04-19-2021),  Bygdedweller (04-19-2021),  Coldmountains (04-19-2021),  Helves (04-19-2021),  JMcB (04-19-2021),  Riverman (04-19-2021)

  16. #189
    Registered Users
    Posts
    570
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Assyrian
    Y-DNA (P)
    G1a
    mtDNA (M)
    I5b1

    Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    If the ancestors of the Longobards (and possibly some other closely related tribes) migrated to Denmark and then further south, their original homeland in SW Sweden could have been taken over by the Gothic-like tribes from further east. Alternatively, it could have been the pressure from the expanding Gothic-like populations in Eastern Sweden that made the ancestors of the Longobards start the southward migration.
    It's interesting though that there's no attestation of an East Germanic language in Sweden.

  17. #190
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,776
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    Italian Alpine
    Nationality
    Australian and Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T1a2b- SK1480
    mtDNA (M)
    H95a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-S8172
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b17

    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Italy Ladinia Austria Tirol
    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    The Kowalewko samples are mostly from 80-260 AD, and the Goths are believed to have come to Poland in the second half of the 1st century AD.
    was not this covered and stated the Goths where in Poland from the iron-age ?

    Our studies revealed close genetic links between the Mas-VBIA and two other Iron Age populations from the Jutland peninsula and from Kowalewko, located in western Poland.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-43183-w


    The Goths had to have been in Poland in the BC times as they merged with West-Balts before heading down to the black sea areas in early AD times
    Last edited by vettor; 04-19-2021 at 04:49 PM.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

Page 19 of 20 FirstFirst ... 917181920 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Développement de P312 et U106
    By palamede in forum French
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-08-2019, 06:57 AM
  2. Subclades of P312 & U106
    By Wing Genealogist in forum R1b General
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 07-26-2017, 04:55 AM
  3. What does the P312/U106 clade ratio tell us?
    By Cofgene in forum R1b General
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-03-2017, 01:58 PM
  4. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 04-03-2014, 04:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •