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Thread: Experimentation with Admixture Software

  1. #801
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    My grandmother got a second Arab distant cousin, this one on Gedmatch's One-To-Many, surname 'Abbas', 8.4cM segment. It's only over ~600 SNPs though so this person, while being tested on FTDNA, did not show up on their Family Finder.

    Their Harappa:

    Population
    S-Indian 0.47%
    Baloch 14.63%
    Caucasian 44.51%
    NE-Euro 2.97%
    SE-Asian -
    Siberian 0.77%
    NE-Asian -
    Papuan -
    American -
    Beringian -
    Mediterranean 10.80%
    SW-Asian 23.19%
    San -
    E-African 1.61%
    Pygmy 0.26%
    W-African 0.80%

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 palestinian (harappa) 4.66
    2 syrian (behar) 4.75
    3 lebanese-muslim (haber) 4.98
    4 lebanese (behar) 5.34
    5 iraq-jew (behar) 5.86
    6 lebanese-christian (haber) 6.93
    7 lebanese-druze (haber) 7.18
    8 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 7.6
    9 iranian-jew (behar) 7.72
    10 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 8.18
    11 georgia-jew (behar) 8.35
    12 iraqi-arab (harappa) 8.4
    13 armenian (harappa) 9.36
    14 jordanian (behar) 9.38
    15 assyrian (harappa) 9.79
    16 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 10.79
    17 palestinian (hgdp) 11.53
    18 cypriot (behar) 12.47
    19 samaritian (behar) 12.55
    20 turkish (harappa) 12.79

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 59.8% lebanese (behar) + 40.2% iranian-jew (behar) @ 1.67
    2 59.4% lebanese (behar) + 40.6% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) @ 1.67
    3 65.4% palestinian (harappa) + 34.6% georgia-jew (behar) @ 1.74
    4 52.6% lebanese (behar) + 47.4% iraq-jew (behar) @ 1.76
    5 68.6% syrian (behar) + 31.4% assyrian (harappa) @ 1.79
    6 71.6% palestinian (harappa) + 28.4% azerbaijan-jew (behar) @ 2.02
    7 71.2% syrian (behar) + 28.8% azerbaijan-jew (behar) @ 2.05
    8 83.3% georgia-jew (behar) + 16.7% libya (henn2012) @ 2.09
    9 80.2% palestinian (harappa) + 19.8% armenian (behar) @ 2.11
    10 54.3% samaritian (behar) + 45.7% kurd (harappa) @ 2.11
    11 65.5% syrian (behar) + 34.5% georgia-jew (behar) @ 2.13
    12 66.3% lebanese (behar) + 33.7% assyrian (harappa) @ 2.24
    13 59% uzbekistan-jew (behar) + 41% palestinian (hgdp) @ 2.3
    14 62% lebanese (behar) + 38% uzbekistan-jew (behar) @ 2.31
    15 51.1% jordanian (behar) + 48.9% assyrian (harappa) @ 2.33
    16 58.6% samaritian (behar) + 41.4% iranian (harappa) @ 2.34
    17 80.3% syrian (behar) + 19.7% armenian (behar) @ 2.36
    18 56.5% syrian (behar) + 43.5% iraq-jew (behar) @ 2.37
    19 70.3% palestinian (harappa) + 29.7% assyrian (harappa) @ 2.37
    20 89.3% palestinian (harappa) + 10.7% georgian (behar) @ 2.39
    The one on FTDNA is also 8.4cM but on a different chromosome, so these don't overlap.

    I haven't seen any other Arabs show up for myself, my mother, or my father or most South Asians for that matter, so their names kind of stick out. I've seen plenty of Iranians show up for Afghans though.

    Anyone else spotted Arabs in their matches? How usual/unusual is this? Extremely perplexing for me since I don't know how any legitimate Arab admixture could've gotten into rural agriculturalists from Punjab.

    Could Caucasian admixture just give "noise" in the form of matches to Arabs? Similar to how I think most of our European matches are probably through chance genetic recombination rather than IBD (although it could be IBD, who knows, but I have more matches than both parents). But I've seen no matches to Caucasus populations either.

    My dad also has someone on his list whose name sticks out, they come out on Harappa as half Syrian, half Spaniard (26% Caucasian, 17% NE-Euro, 26% Med, 16% SW-Asian or something like that).
    Last edited by Dr_McNinja; 10-06-2014 at 12:33 PM.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J-Y978*) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a (FTDNA Kit 329180)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494) (FTDNA Kit 311047), mtDNA: M30b (FTDNA Kit B6225) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a* Y7+ (FTDNA Kit 329181))

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by bol_nat View Post
    UP muslims in Harappa seem to be nasli pathans and with lower S Indian component then this Kashmiri. This seem to be ancient (actually lets say pre 47) admixture.
    My first closest match on Harrapa is UP muslim DISTANCE-3.78
    Last edited by kenji.aryan; 10-06-2014 at 03:36 PM.

  3. #803
    Quote Originally Posted by kenji.aryan View Post
    My first closest match on Harrapa is UP muslim DISTANCE-3.78
    The matches are given by oracle using mathematical similarity between % of different components, when you have similar % of various components to a particular population or individuals then they will appear in your top matches but you have to be able to connect the dots , for example if a punjabi khatri gets another punjabi khatri as his top match then it makes sense because a khatri can relate to another khatri but if a khatri has a top match with a random pashtun purely based on similar % of values of different components then the khatri guy should not take it literally if he is sure that his ancestors have neither intermarried nor shared any ancestry in recent times or even in the past centuries with pashtuns. I think oracle top matches must be connected to your family's known history as it is merely a mathematical proposition.

    Even the whole concept of admixture is a mathematical proposition, it really doesn't tell anything about the real ancestry of an individual person or his modern day genetic relatives. However admixture is very powerful tool to differentiate between various populations using simple algorithms on different allele frequenices, I don't know much about allele frequencies in details but I would say that in the language of physics it is a macroscopic picture of the genome. In order to pinpoint the real genetic relatives of an individual in various populations one would need a microscopic approach using I believe chromosome painter and sharing of chromosome segments and SNPs etc.
    Last edited by supernova; 10-06-2014 at 06:42 PM.

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  5. #804
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    Jammu and Kashmir India
    Found this individual on Gedmatch. Think she's a UP Brahmin

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 38.88
    2 Baloch 36.35
    3 NE-Euro 11.27
    4 Caucasian 5.24
    5 Mediterranean 3.06
    6 Beringian 1.67
    7 American 1.56
    8 SE-Asian 0.94
    9 Siberian 0.84
    10 Papuan 0.14
    11 E-African 0.06

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 up-brahmin (harappa) 2.42
    2 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 3.58
    3 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 5.03
    4 vaish (reich) 5.86
    5 nepalese-a (xing) 6.68
    6 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 6.7
    7 bihari-muslim (harappa) 6.92
    8 gujarati-b (hapmap) 7.05
    9 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 7.53
    10 up-muslim (harappa) 7.64
    11 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.72
    12 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 7.82
    13 meghawal (reich) 8.21
    14 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 8.28
    15 gujarati (harappa) 8.57
    16 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 8.66
    17 maharashtrian (harappa) 8.77
    18 punjabi (harappa) 8.87
    19 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 9.61
    20 tn-brahmin (xing) 9.85

    Eurogenes ANE K7

    Population
    ANE 30.40%
    ASE 17.74%
    WHG-UHG 6.63%
    East_Eurasian 5.73%
    West_African -
    East_African 2.65%
    ENF 36.86%
    Last edited by bored; 10-20-2014 at 03:47 AM.

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  7. #805
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    Jammu and Kashmir India
    I found this guy on Gedmatch. Going by his surname, he seems to be a Bihari (Bhumihar) Brahmin. Somewhat unexpected results?
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Baloch 39.32
    2 S-Indian 33.16
    3 Caucasian 10.9
    4 NE-Euro 9.45
    5 American 2.08
    6 NE-Asian 2.02
    7 Mediterranean 1.36
    8 SE-Asian 0.72
    9 SW-Asian 0.72
    10 Papuan 0.19
    11 Siberian 0.05
    12 Beringian 0.03

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 2.75
    2 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 2.76
    3 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 2.86
    4 punjabi (harappa) 3.07
    5 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 3.35
    6 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 4.26
    7 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.13
    8 kashmiri (harappa) 5.16
    9 up-muslim (harappa) 5.9
    10 punjabi-arain (xing) 5.92
    11 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.05
    12 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.3
    13 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6.63
    14 nepalese-a (xing) 6.83
    15 sindhi (harappa) 7.7
    16 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.4
    17 sindhi (hgdp) 8.69
    18 bhatia (harappa) 9.95
    19 haryana-jatt (harappa) 10.31
    20 pathan (hgdp) 10.67

    ANE K7

    Population
    ANE 29.73%
    ASE 16.84%
    WHG-UHG 5.11%
    East_Eurasian 4.05%
    West_African 0.21%
    East_African 3.25%
    ENF 40.81%
    Last edited by bored; 10-20-2014 at 03:41 AM.

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  9. #806
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    Another interesting result. This guy is a Punjabi Khatri/Arora (Chawla). Results are atypical.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 40.22
    2 Baloch 37.55
    3 Caucasian 9.32
    4 NE-Euro 7
    5 American 2.03
    6 SW-Asian 1.72
    7 Siberian 0.96
    8 Papuan 0.86
    9 Beringian 0.26
    10 NE-Asian 0.09

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 up-brahmin (harappa) 5.98
    2 gujarati-b (hapmap) 6.19
    3 meghawal (reich) 6.58
    4 bihari-muslim (harappa) 6.67
    5 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 6.9
    6 up-muslim (harappa) 6.92
    7 maharashtrian (harappa) 7
    8 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 7.25
    9 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 7.27
    10 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 7.3
    11 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 7.37
    12 punjabi (harappa) 7.39
    13 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 7.4
    14 gujarati (harappa) 7.43
    15 brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 7.44
    16 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 7.48
    17 tn-brahmin (xing) 7.48
    18 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.49
    19 vaish (reich) 7.51
    20 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 8.25

    ANE K7

    Population
    ANE 30.08%
    ASE 18.00%
    WHG-UHG 1.22%
    East_Eurasian 4.60%
    West_African 0.40%
    East_African 3.49%
    ENF 42.22%
    Last edited by bored; 10-20-2014 at 07:55 AM.

  10. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by bored View Post
    I found this guy on Gedmatch. Going by his surname, he seems to be a Bihari (Bhumihar) Brahmin. Somewhat unexpected results?
    ...
    Do you have any info on this person's Y or mtDNA or his clan?

    My Bhumihar clan is Eksariya (perhaps derived from the village of Eksar) and we have a purported Kannaujia origin. This is based on some traditions as well as the Kanyakubja Vanshavali. Though the Vanshavali reference is limited to Bhumihars of the Kashyap gotra while we are of the Parasar gotra. The Vanshavali explains that these Bhumihars were destroyed by the Yavans (here meaning Turko-Mongols).
    कान्यकुब्ज वंशावली पृष्ठ 105:
    http://hindisamay.com/vividh/Swami-S.../chapter-8.htm
    अथ काश्यपमाख्यास्ये गौत्रां तु मुनितम्मतम्।
    पूर्ववंशावलिं दृष्ट्वा ज्ञातं षष्टिशतत्रायम्॥ 1॥

    मदारादिपुराख्यस्य भुइंहारा द्विजास्तु ये।
    तेभ्यश्च यवनेण्दै्रश्च महद्युद्धमभूत्पुरा॥ 2॥

    तेभ्यश्चब्राह्मणा: सर्वे परास्ता अभवंस्तत:॥ इत्यादि॥
    On the other hand, my own line perhaps was Gurjjar Brahman (like the Chauhans and Gehlots) from Yoginipur (modern Delhi).
    The story of this line is that we moved east (nana-desh) due to a defeat by the Yavans (Turks).
    http://books.google.com/books?id=kSM...page&q&f=false


    This period coincides well with the demise of Govind Rao of Yoginipur (per Sirhindi's Tarikh-I-Mubarakshah and Chand Bardai's Rasao).
    Some ancestors are mentioned in the text with names such as Ratul, Vikramaditya (authored Vikrama Sagara), Vanavari, Nathsen Parasar, Vaijjal (authored Prakriya Vyakarna), Vaijjal Bhupati etc.

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  12. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Do you have any info on this person's Y or mtDNA or his clan?

    My Bhumihar clan is Eksariya (perhaps derived from the village of Eksar) and we have a purported Kannaujia origin. This is based on some traditions as well as the Kanyakubja Vanshavali. Though the Vanshavali reference is limited to Bhumihars of the Kashyap gotra while we are of the Parasar gotra. The Vanshavali explains that these Bhumihars were destroyed by the Yavans (here meaning Turko-Mongols).
    कान्यकुब्ज वंशावली पृष्ठ 105:
    http://hindisamay.com/vividh/Swami-S.../chapter-8.htm


    On the other hand, my own line perhaps was Gurjjar Brahman (like the Chauhans and Gehlots) from Yoginipur (modern Delhi).
    The story of this line is that we moved east (nana-desh) due to a defeat by the Yavans (Turks).
    http://books.google.com/books?id=kSM...page&q&f=false

    This period coincides well with the demise of Govind Rao of Yoginipur (per Sirhindi's Tarikh-I-Mubarakshah and Chand Bardai's Rasao).
    Some ancestors are mentioned in the text with names such as Ratul, Vikramaditya (authored Vikrama Sagara), Vanavari, Nathsen Parasar, Vaijjal (authored Prakriya Vyakarna), Vaijjal Bhupati etc.
    Y-DNA = J2
    mtDNA = M3a

    His surname is Ratnakar. That's all I know. Couldn't find him on 23andme.

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  14. #809
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    Jammu and Kashmir India
    ANE K7 of seven Nepali Brahmins , including everest.

    Population
    ANE 29.46%
    ASE 17.45%
    WHG-UHG 7.96%
    East_Eurasian 7.48%
    West_African 0.12%
    East_African 3.56%
    ENF 33.97%

    Population
    ANE 29.22%
    ASE 17.26%
    WHG-UHG 6.86%
    East_Eurasian 7.18%
    West_African 0.08%
    East_African 2.49%
    ENF 36.90%

    Population
    ANE 28.61%
    ASE 17.38%
    WHG-UHG 7.95%
    East_Eurasian 7.44%
    West_African 0.10%
    East_African 3.22%
    ENF 35.30%

    Population
    ANE 28.08%
    ASE 17.99%
    WHG-UHG 7.50%
    East_Eurasian 8.21%
    West_African 0.18%
    East_African 2.86%
    ENF 35.18%

    Population
    ANE 26.98%
    ASE 16.93%
    WHG-UHG 6.84%
    East_Eurasian 9.86%
    West_African -
    East_African 3.37%
    ENF 36.03%

    Population
    ANE 28.34%
    ASE 17.09%
    WHG-UHG 9.47%
    East_Eurasian 7.53%
    West_African 0.18%
    East_African 2.09%
    ENF 35.30




    everest

    Population
    ANE 28.44%
    ASE 17.79%
    WHG-UHG 8.18%
    East_Eurasian 7.85%
    West_African 0.36%
    East_African 2.30%
    ENF 35.07%
    Last edited by bored; 10-22-2014 at 02:21 PM.

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  16. #810
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    Can you post their Harappa? I think we are all pretty similar.

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