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Thread: Additional Modern Greek Averages

  1. #11
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    The new samples confirm what we were discussing in the other thread about Peloponnese. There are academic samples who plot with Western Anatolian Greeks and other who plot with Northern Greeks.
    Neapoli/SE Lakonian cluster is a proof that there are other than Maniots groups in Peloponnese which plot next to Southern Italy.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Attachment 41293

    Greek Cappadocians are mostly native Bronze Age Anatolian. Also, those from Kayiseri were Turkophone..but east eurasian genes totally asbent.
    This would imply Cappadocian Greeks are later Hellenized Luwians or Hittites. Would the Turkified locals in this region have the same profile similar to the scenario with those in Trabzon?


    "sample": "Greek Central Anatolia:Average",
    "distance": 1.1732,
    "Arslantepe_LC": 56,
    "Isparta_EBA": 30,
    "RUS_Catacomb": 14

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  5. #13
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    Very welcome additions

    New samples seem to confirm what we have been suspecting- that Cyprus is closer to Rhodes than to Kos, if the references are indeed mostly from Rhodes. (We should always be careful about samples from Rhodes town as it saw an influx of Greek mainland settlers after enosis in 1947). My parents are from different Cypriot regions and both score 'Dodecanese' above Kos. I still believe that the Cypriot averages have to be carefully assessed and separated for each ethno-religious community on the island, as they may be skewed.

    My mother's results always puzzle me- quite far from the Cypriot average compared to my father.

    What is the difference between Greek Cappadocia and Greek Central Anatolia? Just different references?

    Distance to: Andrewid_scaled
    0.01580260 Cypriot
    0.02438880 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.02520232 Romaniote_Jew
    0.02812814 Syrian_Jew
    0.02855956 Greek_Kos
    0.02916139 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.03022892 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.03145864 Sephardic_Jew
    0.03180413 Druze
    0.03337216 Lebanese_Druze
    0.03413784 Italian_Jew
    0.03454782 Lebanese_Christian
    0.03637680 Greek_Crete
    0.03771769 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.03885736 Karaite_Egypt
    0.03959247 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.04129814 Italian_Calabria
    0.04420828 Italian_Campania
    0.04496205 Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.04561241 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    0.04659969 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.04743319 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    0.04757679 Tunisian_Jew
    0.04789785 Italian_Basilicata
    0.04793459 Sicilian_East



    Distance to: Andrewid_father_scaled
    0.01964154 Cypriot
    0.02444401 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.02613050 Greek_Kos
    0.02669051 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.02993412 Romaniote_Jew
    0.03166649 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.03249283 Syrian_Jew
    0.03447359 Druze
    0.03647972 Lebanese_Druze
    0.03719482 Sephardic_Jew
    0.03737232 Greek_Crete
    0.03817955 Lebanese_Christian
    0.03830933 Italian_Jew
    0.04060674 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.04173815 Italian_Calabria
    0.04339941 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.04395537 Karaite_Egypt
    0.04532216 Italian_Campania
    0.04683730 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.04900576 Italian_Basilicata
    0.04909983 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    0.04958477 Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.05009889 Turkish_Trabzon
    0.05025440 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    0.05132396 Armenian




    Distance to: Andrewid_mother_scaled
    0.02812056 Cypriot
    0.02929533 Romaniote_Jew
    0.03012092 Syrian_Jew
    0.03056095 Sephardic_Jew
    0.03499984 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.03707110 Italian_Jew
    0.03829182 Karaite_Egypt
    0.03903710 Druze
    0.04026878 Lebanese_Druze
    0.04066237 Lebanese_Christian
    0.04068234 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.04168614 Greek_Kos
    0.04265348 Tunisian_Jew
    0.04373736 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.04464232 Lebanese_Muslim
    0.04479494 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.04491299 Libyan_Jew
    0.04530541 Greek_Crete
    0.04742485 Italian_Calabria
    0.04833881 Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.04980709 Moroccan_Jew
    0.04997376 Sicilian_East
    0.05000637 Italian_Campania
    0.05194855 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
    0.05215242 Maltese



    Distance to: Cypriot
    0.02691061 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.03139629 Greek_Kos
    0.03182206 Greek_Cappadocia
    0.03248691 Greek_Central_Anatolia
    0.04055619 Greek_Crete
    0.05928912 Greek_Trabzon
    0.06010875 Greek_Izmir
    0.06591980 Greek_Laconia
    0.07249689 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.08315477 Greek_Thessaly
    0.08617969 Greek_Macedonia
    0.08680241 Greek_East_Rumelia
    0.08776726 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    Last edited by Andrewid; 11-21-2020 at 02:54 PM.

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    This would imply Cappadocian Greeks are later Hellenized Luwians or Hittites. Would the Turkified locals in this region have the same profile similar to the scenario with those in Trabzon?


    "sample": "Greek Central Anatolia:Average",
    "distance": 1.1732,
    "Arslantepe_LC": 56,
    "Isparta_EBA": 30,
    "RUS_Catacomb": 14
    Code:
    23abc_AncestryDNA_scaled,0.110408,0.151314,-0.0290383,-0.0507112,0.0018465,-0.0156179,-0.00305514,-0.00138456,-0.00899905,0.00911181,0.00243583,-0.00149867,-0.00431116,0.00344057,-0.00773606,0.00106072,0.00195576,0.00152026,0.00251396,-0.00550264,-0.00786113,-0.00197844,0.0025882,0.00168699,0.000957998

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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    thanks!

  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Great work!
    Can you add to the PCAs my friend and the substracted model that Xripkan provided too? if it's possible and not too time consuming of course

    Chris_scaled,0.114961,0.146236,-0.007165,-0.030685,0.012002,-0.008646,0.003055,0.000923,-0.003068,0.016583,0.00065,0.006145,-0.002973,0.000413,-0.013301,0.001989,0.005998,0.000887,0.001257,-0.004377,-0.011979,-0.005688,-0.00419,0.00253,-0.004311

    Chris-25PeloponneseN=8,0.114249467,0.146912912,-0.012208922,-0.032165413,0.009975927,-0.008704204,0.003289987,0.001624843,-0.004295188,0.016673937,0.000724611 ,0.007200442,-0.001932333,-0.002310756,-0.012560366,0.003994541,0.007225863,0.001071852,-0.000298515,-0.003584993,-0.013829926,-0.008387748,-0.007152935 ,0.00236917,-0.00538873
     


    Code:
    23abc_AncestryDNA_scaled,0.110408,0.151314,-0.0290383,-0.0507112,0.0018465,-0.0156179,-0.00305514,-0.00138456,-0.00899905,0.00911181,0.00243583,-0.00149867,-0.00431116,0.00344057,-0.00773606,0.00106072,0.00195576,0.00152026,0.00251396,-0.00550264,-0.00786113,-0.00197844,0.0025882,0.00168699,0.000957998

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  12. #17
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    just for fun with what those sources.


    Target: JerryS._scaled
    Distance: 1.6680% / 0.01668049
    51.4 Denmark
    33.6 Ireland
    15.0 SE_Laconia

  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by xripkan View Post
    The new samples confirm what we were discussing in the other thread about Peloponnese. There are academic samples who plot with Western Anatolian Greeks and other who plot with Northern Greeks.
    Neapoli/SE Lakonian cluster is a proof that there are other than Maniots groups in Peloponnese which plot next to Southern Italy.
    I noticed that also, Peloponnese is divided. I think Crete would show a divide as well if Chania was compared to Heraklion.
    Last edited by JerryS.; 11-21-2020 at 03:06 PM.

  14. #19
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    Awesome, the new Peloponnese average plots closer to the average I compiled than to the original one based on only three samples.



    Dark green is the original
    Red is the original plus members of this forum
    Purple is the new one
    My mom is the light green, look how closely she matches it!

    Obviously, more sampling reveals a more accurate picture, and thats what we have now.

    A big “slap in the face” to those who thought that the genetic substructure of the Peloponnese could be represented by three samples.
    Last edited by Sorcelow; 11-21-2020 at 04:51 PM.

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  16. #20
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    It's very interesting that they all get the equivalent G25 reference (apart from East_Rumelia which has no equivalent) as their first matches, proving the consistency of Davidski's lists. Another slap for those who like to challenge the validity of his work.
    No one in the other thread "challenged the validity of his work.". People made a new average with forum members from the Peloponnese, with the premise that 3 samples are not enough to capture the whole variance.

    Your contention with that was that only academic samples should be used as to avoid bias, inaccuracy etc. which is a valid concern.

    Having said, that the new Peloponnesian academic samples pretty much cluster right next to the forum made average, with Laconia being slightly more southern like the old reference. Some of the new Peloponnesian samples enter that space too and others are a bit more northeastern. Overall, it mostly looks like normal variance.

    The Peloponnese overall seems like as slightly more southern version of the rest of the mainland as expected.

    newplot (2).pngnewplot.png

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