Southern Signal (take two), using G25 to try and clear it up..

[evon]

So I have again spent a few hours looking into an old problem, namely a persistent, but vague southern European signal.

Using Vahaduo (G25) I have tried to look at the problem while using my grandmother as a comparison, this is because I assume that the signal is via her side of the family (Romani ancestry that is well documented, both on paper and via DNA). But unfortunately, I have so far not been able to match her southern signal with my southern signal, as while hers is clearly linked to the Balkans (Greek, Croatian etc, which is inline with Romani ancestry), mine is clearly linked to the western Pyrenees/Cantabrian (Basque country, Asturias etc).

However, I see that this type of problem is common in the runs I have run so far (as an example I used Roma/Kale samples and looked at their South Asian signal, which was not overlapping, hence the program is unable to correctly assign them a common source for their South Asian signal), so I dont know what else I can try (using G25 that is).

My "top matching" individual in the Basque samples is Basque_French_HGDP01359, and we follow a similar pattern in our Pyrenees signal (mine with a high at about 12 points, while the Basque sample has a high at about 89 points). When I try to remove samples I see the signal "retreating" eastward along the northern shores of the Med (losing points as it goes further east).

This is also how my family are represented in various admixture estimations (23andme, FTDNA, Myheritage etc), with some of us having a eastern Med signal, while others get a west-Central Med signal (I see that no-calls has a big effect on certain regions), so using G25 does not provide a diverging output in that regard.

Any ideas I can try? It would be much appreciated..

[mildlycurly]

I have a signal issue too, but mine's Eastern Euro/Russian.

I know that I probably don't have any "traditional" Eastern Euro ancestry, and almost all my Eastern Euro matches have a Jewish, Roma or Germanic element to them. This signal is getting pretty annoying.

[evon]

I have a signal issue too, but mine's Eastern Euro/Russian.

I know that I probably don't have any "traditional" Eastern Euro ancestry, and almost all my Eastern Euro matches have a Jewish, Roma or Germanic element to them. This signal is getting pretty annoying.

With Slavs it is much harder to figure it out (due to their limited genepool etc), so I doubt that you will be able to figure that out using the method I have tried... My best bet would be to focus on segment matching and not any form of admixture models..

[Ibericus]

While there are Basque gypsies, the Iberian peninsula is a dead end for Romani people. Those that reached Spain or Portugal pretty much stayed here until present day.

sCW51G1.jpg

Do you have South Asian or West Asian too?

[Caius Agrippa]

Basques have very little in common with Romani people, so if you are scoring Basque it's certainly related to other types of ancestries.

[evon]

While there are Basque gypsies, the Iberian peninsula is a dead end for Romani people. Those that reached Spain or Portugal pretty much stayed here until present day.

sCW51G1.jpg

Do you have South Asian or West Asian too?

I think we misunderstood each other here. I dont think that our Romani ancestors came via Iberia, or that I actually have Iberian ancestry.

Most likely me and my grandmother share the same Balkan signal, which is common to all Romani groups (although at different levels, as is to be expected due to human nature and time etc), but for some reason it is not possible to identify it correctly using the methods I have tried so far (mainly segment matching, G25 based programs, commercial admixture estimations etc), so my family members end up with diverging Mediterranean signals, east to west and back again.

[evon]

Basques have very little in common with Romani people, so if you are scoring Basque it's certainly related to other types of ancestries.

Basque are only appearing using G25 based programs, so it is likely due to limitations with the programs, or the way G25 is set up (it focuses on ancient ancestry after all, not modern populations).

[evon]

I had a look at the reference samples used by 23andme, Myheritage and FTDNA..

23andme assigned me Broadly Southern European, which corresponds to:

Southern European
Albania
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Greece
Moldova
Montenegro
North Macedonia
Romania
Serbia
Italy
Malta
Sardinian
Portugal
Spain

23andme assigned my grandmother Cypriot, which includes Cyprus only (most likely Greek Cypriots).

It assigned her son Broadly southern European (so same as me), as well as Greek & Balkan, which includes:

Albania
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Greece
Moldova
Montenegro
North Macedonia
Romania
Serbia

FTDNA assigned me Iberia, which includes (My guess is it uses Basque samples, hence it might correlate with the signal using G25 data):

The Iberia cluster consists of present day Spain and Portugal.

It assigned my grandmother eastern Europe, which includes:

The East Europe cluster consists of an area encompassing present day Latvia, south to Ukraine, Romania, and the northern part of Bulgaria, west along the eastern edge of the Balkan states to Poland and the eastern half of Germany.

Myheritage assigned me Italian, but I have not found out much more about that cluster, but I guess it is northern Italian. MH assigned my grandmother Balkan.

[vettor]

I had a look at the reference samples used by 23andme, Myheritage and FTDNA..

23andme assigned me Broadly Southern European, which corresponds to:



23andme assigned my grandmother Cypriot, which includes Cyprus only (most likely Greek Cypriots).

It assigned her son Broadly southern European (so same as me), as well as Greek & Balkan, which includes:



FTDNA assigned me Iberia, which includes (My guess is it uses Basque samples, hence it might correlate with the signal using G25 data):



It assigned my grandmother eastern Europe, which includes:


Myheritage assigned me Italian, but I have not found out much more about that cluster, but I guess it is northern Italian. MH assigned my grandmother Balkan.

They assigned me scandinavian due to this person having my ydna branch
Kristoffer Hansson Fure
Birthdate: 1788
Death: 1861 (72-73)
Immediate Family:

Husband of Magdeli Olsdatter Olsdatter
Father of Hans Kristofferson Fure
Managed by: Torhild Gunderstad Fure

i cannot read this http://www.indrefure.net/Slekta/Hest...N7qjV-zY6ZFfPg


I also have 50% of my mtdna matching scania sweden women

so I would not be concerned if i was you

[evon]

They assigned me scandinavian due to this person having my ydna branch
Kristoffer Hansson Fure
Birthdate: 1788
Death: 1861 (72-73)
Immediate Family:

Husband of Magdeli Olsdatter Olsdatter
Father of Hans Kristofferson Fure
Managed by: Torhild Gunderstad Fure

i cannot read this http://www.indrefure.net/Slekta/Hest...N7qjV-zY6ZFfPg


I also have 50% of my mtdna matching scania sweden women

so I would not be concerned if i was you

What do you mean assigned you Scandinavian? Admixture estimation? I am probably related to that guy, as he was born not far from where one of my great great grandparents where born. The link is the history of the guy and his descendants etc, it is written in nynorsk language, so Google translate might not be great at translation.