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Thread: The mixed genetic origin of the first farmers of Europe

  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    IMO i would suggest to always include posting data on Fulani to put things in perspective of what a non Maghreb population with Strong North African admixtures looks like and how high it is compared to contemporary Berber speakers.
    They retain this ancestry with few of the typically Berber uniparental cues.
    They are just mixed with berbers , they have European ancestry.
    the berber source seem to be similar to Southern Berbers
    Last edited by Ramses; 12-02-2020 at 03:27 PM.

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  3. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramses View Post
    They are just mixed with berbers , they have European ancestry.
    the berber source seem to be similar to Southern Berbers
    I know they are mixed with "Berbers". But some some intances they are measurably more Native North African then other North Africans....without having any of the tell tale signs of North African uniparental markers.
    Its not as simple as it seems and Saharan parent population of both groups may be missing in action. For example not too long ago a paper was released that notes

    This is the first study showing that the “Eurasian” LP allele −13910*T is widespread both in northern Europe and in the Sahel; however, it is limited to pastoralists in the Sahel. Since the Fulani haplotype with −13910*T is shared with contemporary Eurasians, its origin could be in a region encompassing the Near East and northeastern Africa in a population ancestral to both Saharan pastoralists and European farmers."
    They then provide data showing the mutation to be OLDEST in Fulani. Not Europeans, not Berbers, But Fulani.
    This finding is mirroring findings from 1o years ago.
    Last edited by beyoku; 12-02-2020 at 05:00 PM.

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  5. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    I know they are mixed with Berbers. But some some intances they are measurably more Native North African then other North Africans....without having any of the tell tale signs of North African uniparental markers.
    Its not as simple as it seems and Saharan parent population of both groups may be missing in action. For example not too long ago a paper was released that notes



    They then provide data showing the mutation to be OLDEST in Fulani. Not Europeans, not Berbers, But Fulani.
    This finding is mirroring findings from 1o years ago.
    Fulani don't show any sign of unusual high north african ancestry , just a simple mix of berber+west african.

    This is the time estimate of the introduction of North african and European admixture in them
    "We inferred that the non-West African proportion in the Fulani were introduced through two admixture events (Additional file 1: Table S2), dated to 1828 years ago (95% CI: 1517-2138) and 302 years ago (95% CI: 237–368). The oldest date compare well with previous dating efforts of the admixture event in the Fulani from Gambia (~ 1800 years ago) [56, 57], indicating a similar genetic history between the Fulani groups of Gambia and Burkina Faso. We hypothesize that the postulated first admixture between West African ancestors of the Fulani with an ancestral North African group/s possibly favoured, or even catalysed changes in their lifeways and consequently led the Fulani expansion throughout the Sahel/Savannah belt. This view is consistent with traces of pastoralism in the West African Savannah (northern Burkina Faso, in particular), starting around 2000 years ago according to archaezoological data [58]. The second admixture event dates to more recent times from a Southwestern European source (Additional file 1: Table S2). This event can possibly be explained by either subsequent gene-flow between the Fulani and North Africans (who carry considerable admixture proportions from Europeans due to trans-Gibraltar gene-flow); or by the European colonial expansion into Africa."
    The complete history of the Fulani pastoralists remains to be uncovered, but through the genetic analyses performed in this study (based on the Fulani population from Ziniaré, Burkina Faso) we show that present-day Fulani genomic diversity developed from admixture between a West African group and a group/s that carried European and North African ancestry. The European LP variant was likely introduced through this admixture event, and was strongly selected in successive generations, in a similar way as the TAS2R gene family
    Vicente et al.'s (2019

    The study you mentioned conflict with the estimates of the -13910*T given by pervious studies because of them using a different method of estimation.. and therefore are incompatible with any estimation of Berbers from any other study this study didn't test any berber group except the tuareq from niger,mali.

    "This discrepancy between the age estimates of −13910*T in the Fulani population can be explained by the fact that the two studies, that is, our present study and Vicente et al.'s (2019), targeted different parts of the genome (a local haplotype age of growth estimate vs. a genome‐wide estimate of admixture), used different dating methods, and the samples on which they were based covered different populations. Moreover, Vicente et al. (2019) analyzed only one Fulani population (from Ziniaré, Burkina Faso), while our results are based on a larger Fulani dataset stretching geographically from Senegal to Chad. Nevertheless, we want to stress that our results do not exclude the possibility of a later admixture and introgression as suggested by Vicente et al., 2019. In fact, the TAS2R genes alleles may have also been introduced to the Fulani via recent admixture with a Eurasian population (Triska et al., 2015). In short, these results reflect the complexity of the population history of Africa."
    There admixture


    Last edited by Ramses; 12-02-2020 at 05:23 PM.

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  7. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    IMO i would suggest to always include posting data on Fulani to put things in perspective of what a non Maghreb population with Strong North African admixtures looks like and how high it is compared to contemporary Berber speakers.
    They retain this ancestry with few of the typically Berber uniparental cues.
    That's because they are mixed with folkdom from the Anti-Atlas /Southern High Atlas Belts.

    Fulanis

    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-1.DG
    Distance: 1.5609% / 0.01560875
    51.4 Yoruba
    21.4 MAR_Taforalt
    16.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    7.4 Dinka
    3.4 Levant_PPNB

    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-2.DG
    Distance: 1.7504% / 0.01750449
    52.6 Yoruba
    20.6 MAR_Taforalt
    17.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    7.8 Dinka
    1.8 Levant_PPNB

    Berber_Mar_Tiznit

    Target: Berber_MAR_TIZ:BerT14
    Distance: 3.9334% / 0.04457611
    41.8 MAR_Taforalt
    40.4 Iberia_N
    10.1 Levant_PPNB
    7.2 Yoruba

    Without Neolithic input.

    Fulanis

    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-2.DG
    Distance: 8.6801% / 0.08680093
    51.4 Yoruba
    42.2 MAR_Taforalt
    6.4 Dinka

    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-1.DG
    Distance: 8.8560% / 0.08855975
    50.2 Yoruba
    44.0 MAR_Taforalt
    5.8 Dinka

    Without any Eurasian ancestry.

    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-2.DG
    Distance: 23.2637% / 0.23263696
    50.0 Dinka
    50.0 Yoruba
    Last edited by Echo; 12-02-2020 at 10:03 PM.

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  9. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    I know they are mixed with "Berbers". But some some intances they are measurably more Native North African then other North Africans....without having any of the tell tale signs of North African uniparental markers.
    Its not as simple as it seems and Saharan parent population of both groups may be missing in action. For example not too long ago a paper was released that notes



    They then provide data showing the mutation to be OLDEST in Fulani. Not Europeans, not Berbers, But Fulani.
    This finding is mirroring findings from 1o years ago.
    What are you talking about? Lol I’m confused as to what you are saying

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  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramses View Post
    Fulani don't show any sign of unusual high north african ancestry , just a simple mix of berber+west african.

    This is the time estimate of the introduction of North african and European admixture in them



    Vicente et al.'s (2019

    The study you mentioned conflict with the estimates of the -13910*T given by pervious studies because of them using a different method of estimation.. and therefore are incompatible with any estimation of Berbers from any other study this study didn't test any berber group except the tuareq from niger,mali.



    There admixture


    You are still using yoruba which makes no sense.

    Distance: 2.2836% / 0.02283587
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-2.DG
    49.2 West_African_(simulated)
    38.1 Iberomaurusian
    8.2 Early_European_Farmer
    2.6 Africa_Mesolithic
    1.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
    0.7 Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer

    Distance: 1.8478% / 0.01847764
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-1.DG
    48.8 West_African_(simulated)
    38.7 Iberomaurusian
    10.0 Early_European_Farmer
    1.7 Africa_Mesolithic
    0.8 Steppe_Pastoralist

    I feel like you are all modelling samples you don’t understand

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    Without Neolithic input.
    Teneriens seem to have been an odd mixture with a strange combination of traits, but they being estimated to have had Neolithic influences from further North, Proto-Mediterranean inspired. Similar to Natufians, just even more exotic (admixed?) from the Eurasian perspective probably.

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    Modern model
    Distance: 2.3041% / 0.02304093
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-2.DG
    53.3 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    33.2 Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ:BerT8
    7.8 Cushitic
    5.7 Berber:Berber_MAR_ERR:BerE7

    Distance: 1.9360% / 0.01935958
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-1.DG
    52.2 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    40.7 Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ:BerT8
    7.1 Cushitic

    Distance: 2.3041% / 0.02304093
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-2.DG
    53.3 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    38.9 Berber
    7.8 Cushitic

    Distance: 1.9360% / 0.01935958
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-1.DG
    52.2 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    40.7 Berber
    7.1 Cushitic

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    I know they are mixed with "Berbers". But some some intances they are measurably more Native North African then other North Africans....without having any of the tell tale signs of North African uniparental markers.
    Its not as simple as it seems and Saharan parent population of both groups may be missing in action. For example not too long ago a paper was released that notes



    They then provide data showing the mutation to be OLDEST in Fulani. Not Europeans, not Berbers, But Fulani.
    This finding is mirroring findings from 1o years ago.
    I really doubt that the spread of −13910*T in Europeans is linked to any MENA population.

  18. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroco View Post
    Modern model
    Distance: 2.3041% / 0.02304093
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-2.DG
    53.3 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    33.2 Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ:BerT8
    7.8 Cushitic
    5.7 Berber:Berber_MAR_ERR:BerE7

    Distance: 1.9360% / 0.01935958
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-1.DG
    52.2 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    40.7 Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ:BerT8
    7.1 Cushitic

    Distance: 2.3041% / 0.02304093
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-2.DG
    53.3 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    38.9 Berber
    7.8 Cushitic

    Distance: 1.9360% / 0.01935958
    Target: Fulani:T_Fulani-1.DG
    52.2 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    40.7 Berber
    7.1 Cushitic
    Fulanis have no cushitic admixture....you should use Dinka or South Sudanese samples for their AEA ancestry

    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 4.3643% / 0.04364328
    53.4 Dinka
    39.4 Levant_Natufian
    4.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
    3.0 ETH_4500BP


    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 1.3967% / 0.01396717 | R7P
    27.2 TZA_PN
    22.4 KEN_Pastoral_N
    21.1 KEN_Pastoral_IA
    13.9 KEN_LuKENHill_3500BP
    10.2 KEN_HyraxHill_2300BP
    3.0 EGY_Hellenistic
    2.2 KAZ_Karluk



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