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Thread: The mixed genetic origin of the first farmers of Europe

  1. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    I really doubt that the spread of −13910*T in Europeans is linked to any MENA population.
    The earliest confirmed derived rs4988235 is I6561 ~4000 BC R1a1 sample from NE Ukraine.
    The earliest potentially derived sample is ~7200 BC WC1 who was possibly heterozygous at rs4988235.

    "WC1 is heterozygous at rs4988235 (C/T(-13910)) ... Analysis of the
    specific read groups from which these reads derived along with their base quality and mapping
    scores did not show signs of contamination. However, the small number of derived reads present at each LCT site, particularly the ratio of derived/ancestral reads (1:10) in WC1, leads
    us to suspect they may be erroneous."
    https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...oushaki.SM.pdf
    "WC1 Early Neolithic 74557082 2/11"
    https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016...-ancient-iran/

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  3. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    OK, thank you �� I should have switched my brain on faster, yes I know the destination and distance from which country are you from the Maghreb?
    Morocco
    Distance: 1.3659% / 0.01365938
    64.2 Berber
    22.2 Southern_Levant
    10.0 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    2.4 Levantine
    0.8 Cushitic
    0.4 Basque_Spanish

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  5. #313
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    Fulani vary quite a bit by subgroup, generally more West African the further west, but not strictly so.

    Maternally (pooling all my samples n=404), they have a rather high proportion of L1b (~25%), and a moderate amount of haplogroup N (~9%). The most common branches of the latter are U5b1b1b (~5%, a very young clade shared with Berbers) and J1b (~2.5%). They also had a little H (H1cb1a specifically), V, and U6, one case of U3, but no M1 that I could find.

    Paternally (pooling all samples n=242, and guessing a little) we have ~51% E-M2, ~17% E1a-M33, 11% each E-M35(xM78) and R1b-V88, 5% E-M78 (incl V32 and V22), 3% A1b-M13, plus a little A1a-M31, B2a-M150, E2-M75, T1a-M70.

    A good deal of E-M35(xM78, M81, M123) was, judging by STRs, likely to be E-PF2431, sister to E-M81. But I didn't notice a single case of E-M81, which would be rather surprising if they got their North African ancestry from Berbers. And also very little or no U6 and M1. So like Beyoku said, the actual source of their North African ancestry isn't so obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramses View Post
    Fulani don't show any sign of unusual high north african ancestry , just a simple mix of berber+west african.

    Chenini are too Eurasian, you will get a better fit with Tiznit Berbers or Saharawi (and the latter in Mauritania are close to the Fulani homeland):
    48% Yoruba, 45% Saharawi, 7% Dinka - distance 2.1388%; or 47% Yoruba, 45.5% Tiznit Berber, 7.5% Dinka - 1.8213%

    But even then the Fulani can take more Taforalt than that:
    48% Yoruba, 38% Saharawi, 8% Taforalt, 5% Dinka - 1.2031%; 48% Yoruba, 39% Tiznit Berber, 7% Taforalt, 6% Dinka - 1.1383%

    So it seems their proportion of Taforalt:Eurasian is higher than in any of our Berber samples. Well, for the two Fulani we have in G25, anyway. There was already European ancestry in the Maghreb more than 5000 years ago, so it's not clear to me why this ancestry would have to come from Berbers specifically.
    Last edited by Megalophias; 12-02-2020 at 10:27 PM.

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  7. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Fulani vary quite a bit by subgroup, generally more West African the further west, but not strictly so.

    Maternally (pooling all my samples n=404), they have a rather high proportion of L1b (~25%), and a moderate amount of haplogroup N (~9%). The most common branches of the latter are U5b1b1b (~5%, a very young clade shared with Berbers) and J1b (~2.5%). They also had a little H (H1cb1a specifically), V, and U6, one case of U3, but no M1 that I could find.

    Paternally (pooling all samples n=242, and guessing a little) we have ~51% E-M2, ~17% E1a-M33, 11% each E-M35(xM78) and R1b-V88, 5% E-M78 (incl V32 and V22), 3% A1b-M13, plus a little A1a-M31, B2a-M150, E2-M75, T1a-M70.

    A good deal of E-M35(xM78, M81, M123) was, judging by STRs, likely to be E-PF2431, sister to E-M81. But I didn't notice a single case of E-M81, which would be rather surprising if they got their North African ancestry from Berbers. And also very little or no U6 and M1. So like Beyoku said, the actual source of their North African ancestry isn't so obvious.



    Chenini are too Eurasian, you will get a better fit with Tiznit Berbers or Saharawi (and the latter in Mauritania are close to the Fulani homeland):
    48% Yoruba, 45% Saharawi, 7% Dinka - distance 2.1388%; or 47% Yoruba, 45.5% Tiznit Berber, 7.5% Dinka - 1.8213%

    But even then the Fulani can take more Taforalt than that:
    48% Yoruba, 38% Saharawi, 8% Taforalt, 5% Dinka - 1.2031%; 48% Yoruba, 39% Tiznit Berber, 7% Taforalt, 6% Dinka - 1.1383%

    So it seems their proportion of Taforalt:Eurasian is higher than in any of our Berber samples. Well, for the two Fulani we have in G25, anyway. There was already European ancestry in the Maghreb more than 5000 years ago, so it's not clear to me why this ancestry would have to come from Berbers specifically.
    Did you mix up Sudanese Fulani with west african fulani ? those are complete different groups, with very different uniparental lineages.
    The time where those west african fulani got there North african and european ancestry are mentioned in my earlier comment. two events 1828 yr ago , and 300 yr ago.

    They then using gpGraph suggest that this admixture event was mediated via a mixed Berber group ,(berber group who was already admixed with and european ancestry giving them 34%)

    This is lower than the north african ancestry they get in G25.
    Last edited by Ramses; 12-02-2020 at 11:28 PM.

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  9. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Fulani vary quite a bit by subgroup, generally more West African the further west, but not strictly so.

    Maternally (pooling all my samples n=404), they have a rather high proportion of L1b (~25%), and a moderate amount of haplogroup N (~9%). The most common branches of the latter are U5b1b1b (~5%, a very young clade shared with Berbers) and J1b (~2.5%). They also had a little H (H1cb1a specifically), V, and U6, one case of U3, but no M1 that I could find.

    Paternally (pooling all samples n=242, and guessing a little) we have ~51% E-M2, ~17% E1a-M33, 11% each E-M35(xM78) and R1b-V88, 5% E-M78 (incl V32 and V22), 3% A1b-M13, plus a little A1a-M31, B2a-M150, E2-M75, T1a-M70.

    A good deal of E-M35(xM78, M81, M123) was, judging by STRs, likely to be E-PF2431, sister to E-M81. But I didn't notice a single case of E-M81, which would be rather surprising if they got their North African ancestry from Berbers. And also very little or no U6 and M1. So like Beyoku said, the actual source of their North African ancestry isn't so obvious.



    Chenini are too Eurasian, you will get a better fit with Tiznit Berbers or Saharawi (and the latter in Mauritania are close to the Fulani homeland):
    48% Yoruba, 45% Saharawi, 7% Dinka - distance 2.1388%; or 47% Yoruba, 45.5% Tiznit Berber, 7.5% Dinka - 1.8213%

    But even then the Fulani can take more Taforalt than that:
    48% Yoruba, 38% Saharawi, 8% Taforalt, 5% Dinka - 1.2031%; 48% Yoruba, 39% Tiznit Berber, 7% Taforalt, 6% Dinka - 1.1383%

    So it seems their proportion of Taforalt:Eurasian is higher than in any of our Berber samples. Well, for the two Fulani we have in G25, anyway. There was already European ancestry in the Maghreb more than 5000 years ago, so it's not clear to me why this ancestry would have to come from Berbers specifically.
    There's 50+ Fula from Burkina Faso on the g25 I posted if you wanna check out

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  11. #316
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    If anyone else wanted em here they are Fula Burkina Faso.

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    FZR33:FZR33,-0.466675,0.075149,0.009428,-0.017765,0.006463,-0.004183,-0.046297,0.043152,0.001841,0.01877,0.002598,-0.006594,0.026016,-0.004954,0.017779,-0.019888,0.005476,-0.013429,-0.024888,-0.000875,-0.002371,-0.014467,0.003204,-0.002048,0.005149
    FZR34:FZR34,-0.45074,0.081242,0.011314,-0.020349,0.010156,-0.003347,-0.045122,0.03946,0.008795,0.021868,0.007145,-0.003747,0.03107,-0.009221,0.020765,-0.009812,0.012517,-0.007981,-0.025768,0.008504,-0.00836,-0.029553,0.011832,-0.002289,0.000599
    FZR35:FZR35,-0.465537,0.081242,0.013576,-0.018088,0.008309,-0.003904,-0.042067,0.035075,0.007976,0.022962,0.003248,-0.002997,0.025421,-0.004817,0.021308,-0.010342,0.009648,-0.007221,-0.019609,0.004252,-0.004991,-0.01558,0.008997,-0.00241,0.001197
    FZR37:FZR37,-0.449601,0.085304,0.00528,-0.017442,0.008925,-0.005857,-0.038542,0.031845,0.012885,0.023873,-0.002111,-0.008692,0.019029,-0.011973,0.02158,-0.013392,0.007432,-0.015456,-0.018352,0.007003,-0.006489,-0.017435,0.012695,0.00241,0.001557
    FZR38:FZR38,-0.44391,0.083273,0.017725,-0.022287,0.013541,-0.00753,-0.047002,0.03346,0.009817,0.025331,0.000325,-0.004196,0.015461,-0.013762,0.015608,-0.007823,0.010822,-0.012542,-0.021117,0.004377,-0.008984,-0.019784,0.011585,-0.003856,0.003952
    FZR39:FZR39,-0.439357,0.08632,0.010182,-0.019703,0.009232,-0.004462,-0.046062,0.035075,0.013294,0.021322,0.001949,0.002098,0.020218,-0.009221,0.013029,-0.019756,0.009257,-0.014696,-0.021243,0.004877,-0.006863,-0.021021,0.008381,-0.006627,0.007424
    FZR40:FZR40,-0.45074,0.083273,0.013199,-0.018411,0.009848,-0.002789,-0.038542,0.031845,0.00859,0.024237,0.003573,0,0.020367,-0.01101,0.020087,-0.013126,0.003781,-0.013176,-0.018478,-0.002126,-0.002121,-0.013849,0.008997,-0.005181,0.003233
    FZR41:FZR41,-0.453016,0.079211,0.011314,-0.019703,0.007694,-0.001673,-0.045122,0.035075,0.006749,0.022051,0.002436,-0.002698,0.020218,-0.005643,0.019001,-0.023071,-0.004563,-0.01723,-0.02162,0.003877,-0.001123,-0.016199,0.007148,-0.004338,0.00934
    FZR42:FZR42,-0.473504,0.085304,0.010936,-0.010336,0.005539,-0.001116,-0.047472,0.038998,0.002863,0.020775,0.006333,-0.005695,0.0278,-0.002752,0.015472,-0.011933,0.011213,-0.014062,-0.015587,0.004877,-0.004742,-0.014591,0.010599,0.003253,0.007305
    FZR43:FZR43,-0.445048,0.089367,0.008297,-0.023902,0.007386,-0.005299,-0.037367,0.035998,0.009408,0.027882,0.001786,-0.005845,0.017691,-0.001789,0.021444,-0.01127,0.016037,-0.015836,-0.015712,0.002001,-0.005615,-0.02065,0.005793,-0.002892,0.002994
    FZR44:FZR44,-0.457569,0.082258,0.014331,-0.013889,0.008925,-0.003068,-0.041127,0.038075,0.000818,0.022962,0.005521,-0.003897,0.019772,-0.007707,0.016286,-0.011403,0.005476,-0.012162,-0.019232,0.000875,-0.00861,-0.017806,0.010476,-0.00012,0.002155
    FZR45:FZR45,-0.48261,0.078196,0.013576,-0.010982,0.00954,0.000558,-0.044652,0.041537,-0.001227,0.021504,0.006983,-0.010191,0.018434,-0.009496,0.018187,-0.01432,0.008345,-0.012415,-0.010307,0,-0.007112,-0.017188,0.006409,-0.003615,0.003712
    FZR46:FZR46,-0.438219,0.082258,0.013199,-0.018411,0.008617,-0.012829,-0.044887,0.028614,0.007772,0.022233,0.008282,-0.004496,0.025718,-0.015551,0.020222,-0.009016,0.022687,-0.011655,-0.01898,0.003001,-0.010981,-0.020897,0.00912,0.000602,0.001078
    FZR47:FZR47,-0.455292,0.07718,0.016593,-0.015181,0.012618,-0.001673,-0.049587,0.034152,0.009613,0.021322,0.006008,-0.004046,0.021853,-0.012524,0.022258,-0.002519,0.012778,-0.006461,-0.017723,0.006128,-0.00262,-0.018919,0.01023,0.001325,0.005389
    FZR48:FZR48,-0.449601,0.087336,0.012445,-0.020995,0.009848,-0.008367,-0.045592,0.032999,0.009613,0.027335,0.004547,-0.001499,0.022745,-0.011423,0.016151,-0.008751,0.015907,-0.013049,-0.026271,0.004127,-0.003868,-0.018548,0.011462,-0.002892,-0.000958
    FZR49:FZR49,-0.475781,0.080227,0.01961,-0.011951,0.009848,0.00251,-0.048412,0.037845,0.000409,0.025513,0.001949,-0.002098,0.022448,-0.000275,0.022394,-0.011403,0.008866,-0.01875,-0.017095,0.003377,-0.006863,-0.017682,0.008258,-0.005904,0.00455
    FZR50:FZR50,-0.460984,0.079211,0.010559,-0.012597,0.008001,-0.006693,-0.047237,0.039691,0.002454,0.023508,0.006333,-0.003747,0.027651,-0.013487,0.018187,-0.012729,0.004955,-0.007475,-0.02162,0.003627,-0.006239,-0.014962,0.010969,-0.000241,0.005748
    FZR51:FZR51,-0.467813,0.079211,0.011314,-0.019057,0.012925,0.00251,-0.043477,0.036922,0.010226,0.020593,0.000325,-0.003147,0.02111,-0.013487,0.016015,-0.0118,0.014864,-0.011782,-0.022123,0.005628,-0.004243,-0.018548,0.011092,-0.001446,0.005149
    FZR52:FZR52,-0.486025,0.080227,0.014708,-0.006137,0.008617,-0.000837,-0.047472,0.037614,-0.007567,0.030433,0.007795,-0.002997,0.022448,-0.005505,0.011401,-0.011668,0.007562,-0.006208,-0.011313,0.007128,-0.00549,-0.01286,0.009983,-0.000723,0.006945
    FZR53:FZR53,-0.429113,0.084289,0.009428,-0.019703,0.012002,-0.003626,-0.042537,0.033922,0.012885,0.027518,0.000812,-0.004946,0.029583,-0.011423,0.013301,-0.011005,0.014603,-0.018243,-0.019735,0.002876,-0.007736,-0.020526,0.012448,0.000843,0.006945
    FZR54:FZR54,-0.488301,0.083273,0.010936,-0.008075,0.003385,-0.002231,-0.046767,0.043383,-0.001432,0.023873,0.005684,-0.003897,0.019921,-0.005505,0.017779,-0.016971,0.004042,-0.008868,-0.008045,-0.004627,-0.004118,-0.020526,0.003821,-0.003012,0.00467
    FZR55:FZR55,-0.486025,0.078196,0.015462,-0.010336,0.006155,-0.00502,-0.044182,0.041306,-0.002863,0.031162,0.003248,0.001649,0.020664,-0.004817,0.015065,-0.011535,0.002217,-0.007348,-0.012444,0.001501,-0.005241,-0.011747,0.007888,0.002771,0.002754
    FZR56:FZR56,-0.43139,0.081242,0.00792,-0.021318,0.012002,-0.012271,-0.047707,0.035537,0.016157,0.024784,0.00406,-0.005845,0.022448,-0.006055,0.021444,-0.015778,0.005476,-0.013809,-0.022751,0.004252,-0.005116,-0.021145,0.010723,-0.003494,-0.000958
    Hmu if you want the unscaled.

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  13. #317
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    Thanks ThaYamamoto!

    Fulani_Ziniare average: 59% Yoruba, 29% Tiznit Berber, 6% Dinka, 6% Taforalt - 0.6555%; 73% Fulani_Cameroon, 27% Gambian - 1.168%
    Fulani_Ziniare:FZR21: 44% Yoruba, 42% Tiznit Berber, 9% Dinka, 6% Taforalt - 1.9301%; 100% Fulani_Cameroon - 2.467%
    Fulani_Ziniare:FZR31: 69% Yoruba, 18% Tiznit Berber, 7% Dinka, 6% Taforalt - 1.9089%; 54% Gambian, 45% Fulani_Cameroon - 2.02%

    The most North African ones are very close to the Cameroon samples, the least North African is closer to Gambians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramses View Post
    Did you mix up Sudanese Fulani with west african fulani ? those are complete different groups, with very different uniparental lineages.
    Like I said, they vary, and are usually more West African as you go west. But it's not like I have autosomal results to go with the uniparentals. I just pooled everyone from Sudan to Guinea-Bissau - the majority are from Cameroon, Chad, and Niger. The 2 in the G25 are from Cameroon, I guess they are on the higher end of North African admixture. It varies even within areas, e.g. if you look at the ADMIXTURE chart from Vicente et al some of the Gambian Fulani are like the Burkina Faso Fulani while others are much more West African.
    Last edited by Megalophias; 12-03-2020 at 01:15 AM. Reason: Looking at Ziniare Fulani samples

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  15. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Fulani vary quite a bit by subgroup, generally more West African the further west, but not strictly so.

    Maternally (pooling all my samples n=404), they have a rather high proportion of L1b (~25%), and a moderate amount of haplogroup N (~9%). The most common branches of the latter are U5b1b1b (~5%, a very young clade shared with Berbers) and J1b (~2.5%). They also had a little H (H1cb1a specifically), V, and U6, one case of U3, but no M1 that I could find.

    Paternally (pooling all samples n=242, and guessing a little) we have ~51% E-M2, ~17% E1a-M33, 11% each E-M35(xM78) and R1b-V88, 5% E-M78 (incl V32 and V22), 3% A1b-M13, plus a little A1a-M31, B2a-M150, E2-M75, T1a-M70.

    A good deal of E-M35(xM78, M81, M123) was, judging by STRs, likely to be E-PF2431, sister to E-M81. But I didn't notice a single case of E-M81, which would be rather surprising if they got their North African ancestry from Berbers. And also very little or no U6 and M1. So like Beyoku said, the actual source of their North African ancestry isn't so obvious.



    Chenini are too Eurasian, you will get a better fit with Tiznit Berbers or Saharawi (and the latter in Mauritania are close to the Fulani homeland):
    48% Yoruba, 45% Saharawi, 7% Dinka - distance 2.1388%; or 47% Yoruba, 45.5% Tiznit Berber, 7.5% Dinka - 1.8213%

    But even then the Fulani can take more Taforalt than that:
    48% Yoruba, 38% Saharawi, 8% Taforalt, 5% Dinka - 1.2031%; 48% Yoruba, 39% Tiznit Berber, 7% Taforalt, 6% Dinka - 1.1383%

    So it seems their proportion of Taforalt:Eurasian is higher than in any of our Berber samples. Well, for the two Fulani we have in G25, anyway. There was already European ancestry in the Maghreb more than 5000 years ago, so it's not clear to me why this ancestry would have to come from Berbers specifically.
    You don’t nesecarly have to be Em81, they have have E-m78 at 34.62% which is the same haplogroup ibm were under. So I don’t know why people are saying it’s not clear where they got their North African ancestry from
    Distance: 1.3659% / 0.01365938
    64.2 Berber
    22.2 Southern_Levant
    10.0 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    2.4 Levantine
    0.8 Cushitic
    0.4 Basque_Spanish

  16. #319
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    Egypt Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by maroco View Post
    You don’t nesecarly have to be Em81, they have have E-m78 at 34.62%.
    That's a specific Sudanese Fulani thing, West African Fulani have a higher E-M35 (xE-M78) frequencies. Even some - if not all - are E-M35 (xM78,M123,M81). Which in this case likely pointing to an E-L19* kind as E-PF2431 for example.
    Last edited by The Saite; 12-03-2020 at 09:18 AM.
    Autosomal using ancient populations :
    93% Late Period Ancient Egyptian, 4% JOR_EBA, 3% GRC_Minoan_Lassithi (Just another G25's Scaled results with a Suitable fit).

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  18. #320
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    Hawaii
    Edit.
    Last edited by Echo; 12-04-2020 at 06:10 AM.

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