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Thread: Ancient genomes from North Africa evidence prehistoric migrations to the Maghreb from

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    Ancient genomes from North Africa evidence prehistoric migrations to the Maghreb from

    what’s your thoughts and do you agree with this study

    https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6774

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    One thing I have wondered is so you have first taforalt-related ancestry from the IBM-culture to the early neolithic and then in the late neolithic that is replaced with ~2/3 anatolian farmer/EEF related.
    So when does afroasiatic(berber) ancestry enter the region? (assuming berber languages was spread by migrations)

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    Quote Originally Posted by theplayer View Post
    One thing I have wondered is so you have first taforalt-related ancestry from the IBM-culture to the early neolithic and then in the late neolithic that is replaced with ~2/3 anatolian farmer/EEF related.
    So when does afroasiatic(berber) ancestry enter the region? (assuming berber languages was spread by migrations)
    It's of course not the end of the Berber ethnogenesis, far from it. EM81 yDNA for example is younger by 3000 years or more and Berber languages are very bottlenecked (non-diverse) suggesting an important founder effect.

    I don't know where the Afro-Asiatic/Berber language emanated from.

    It appears from the ancient data available Natufian-like ancestry already showed up in both the North African Late Copper Age and Early Bronze Age individual outliers from Iberia and Sardinia. It's probably simply the Capsian culture that was ongoing in Neolithic Tunisia and thereby. As this study focus on Neolithic Morocco.

    But the most interesting are the Guanche individuals from Canary Islands, who are nearly identical to many modern coastal Berbers and show nearly 40-50% ancestry related to Bell Beaker Iberians, meaning that later Iron Age Berbers were likely almost half Bell Beakers half Copper Age North Africans (best represented by the Sardinian outlier from the G25 spreadsheet).

    Guanche005

    Target:Gun005
    Distance : 2,9065%/0.02264150
    34 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    24 Mar_Taforalt
    20 Tur_Barcin
    12.4 Levant Natufian
    5 Yoruba
    0.8 Iran_Ganjareh_N

    Target: Gun005
    Distance: 2.2641%/0.02264150
    38 Bell_Beaker_Iberian
    25 MAR_Taforalt
    22 Levant_PPNB
    7 TUR_Barcin_N
    5 Yoruba
    0.8 Iran_Ganjareh N

    Modern North Moroccan.
    Distance : 2.2457% /0.2245705
    35 Bell Beaker Iberia
    26.4 Mar Taforalt
    16.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    10.8 Natufian
    5 Yoruba
    1 Irn_Ganj_Dareh_N

    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun005
    Distance: 3.0884% / 0.04088442
    57.8 ITA_Sardinia_C_o
    39.2 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    3.0 Yoruba

    Guanches don't have any higher Levant and MAR_Taforalt ancestry than the ITA_Sardinia_C_o already has. They basically have less.
    Last edited by SilkRoad; 01-17-2021 at 09:37 AM.

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    Sudanese ancestry could have arrived with the earliest Berbers when they left NE Africa as this type of ancestry is found in the Cushites,Egyptians & Chadic speakers.


    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun012
    Distance: 2.0995% / 0.02099505
    30.2 MAR_Taforalt
    23.0 Levant_ISR_C
    20.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    16.6 MAR_LN
    9.4 Dinka


    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun008
    Distance: 2.7793% / 0.02779265
    34.2 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    31.6 Levant_ISR_C
    26.4 MAR_Taforalt
    6.0 Yoruba
    1.8 Dinka

    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun011
    Distance: 2.0708% / 0.02070784
    33.4 MAR_Taforalt
    29.6 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    29.6 Levant_ISR_C
    6.4 Yoruba
    1.0 Dinka
    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 2.8833% / 0.02883253
    93.8 Somali
    6.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    Target: Mother_scaled
    Distance: 2.7252% / 0.02725184
    91.8 Somali
    8.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    FTDNA myorigins 3.0:
    Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia & Somalia
    94%
    Yemenite Jewish
    6%

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    Fascinating Berber speaking individuals from Anti-Atlas/Souss (Morocco) who can literraly score 0% Natufian or Steppes and retain a huge amount of Taforalt-related and Anatolian/Early European farmer ancestry from the Kelif El Borod (KEB. ) and Ifri N aMoussa (IAM.) sites excavated in the OP study.


    Target: Berber_MAR_TIZ:BerT9
    Distance: 2.1924% / 0.02192391
    44.2 MAR_Taforalt
    43.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    5.0 Yoruba
    4.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    2.6 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    0.2 Levant_Natufian


    Target: Berber_MAR_TIZ:BerT7
    Distance: 2.0569% / 0.03084939
    48.6 MAR_Taforalt
    46.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    3.6 Yoruba
    Last edited by SilkRoad; 01-17-2021 at 07:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Sudanese ancestry could have arrived with the earliest Berbers when they left NE Africa as this type of ancestry is found in the Cushites,Egyptians & Chadic speakers.


    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun012
    Distance: 2.0995% / 0.02099505
    30.2 MAR_Taforalt
    23.0 Levant_ISR_C
    20.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    16.6 MAR_LN
    9.4 Dinka


    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun008
    Distance: 2.7793% / 0.02779265
    34.2 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    31.6 Levant_ISR_C
    26.4 MAR_Taforalt
    6.0 Yoruba
    1.8 Dinka

    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun011
    Distance: 2.0708% / 0.02070784
    33.4 MAR_Taforalt
    29.6 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    29.6 Levant_ISR_C
    6.4 Yoruba
    1.0 Dinka
    Actually the idea of a mostly Dinka or a Dinka related population existing in Northwest Africa in contact with certain Berbers then later got diluted, isn't really far-fitched if one considered historical writings there. On the other hand, for early AA populations to have such resisting Dinka ancestry (reaching 9% in the model provided) along their migrations from NE Africa to NW Africa when both the Copts (including the far southern upper Egypt ones) and the ancient Egyptians tested up-to-the-moment not showing it. I find problematic. Worth to mention that if we replaced the Levant ISR with the combined Historic tested Egyptians -so far- it will still show a good fit too.

    Target: ITA_Sardinia_C_o:I15940
    Distance: 2.4754% / 0.02475367
    42.4 MAR_Taforalt
    18.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    15.8 EGY_Historic
    15.6 Iberia_N
    7.6 Dinka
    0.6 CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP


    Target: Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246
    Distance: 1.9200% / 0.01920010
    33.4 Iberia_N
    18.6 EGY_Historic
    16.0 MAR_LN
    14.0 MAR_Taforalt
    10.2 Dinka
    7.8 MAR_EN

    Also interesting how a Barcin_N source is producing a way better fit than Iberian_N for I15940 but not for I4246, likely reflecting the expanding Euro farmers were somehow heterogeneous themselves due to maybe WHG touches here and there.
    Last edited by The Saite; 01-18-2021 at 10:25 PM.
    Autosomal using ancient populations :
    93% Late Period Ancient Egyptian, 4% JOR_EBA, 3% GRC_Minoan_Lassithi (Just another G25's Scaled results with a Suitable fit).

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    The Saite - You should put Peki'in_CA in those models too. While maybe not to be taken literally, it seems to be a good proxy for something important. (Note I don't have any African columns besides Taforalt so the nature of any SSA ancestry is not determined)

    Kenya_EarlyPastoralN
    "Israel_Peki'in_CA" 44.8
    "Mota.SG" 22.75
    "Kenya_Kansyore" 18.65
    "Morocco_EN.SG" 9
    "Malawi_Fingira_2500BP" 4.8
    "distance%=0.2033 / distance=0.002033"

    Kenya_PastoralN
    "Israel_Peki'in_CA" 37
    "Mota.SG" 26.4
    "Kenya_Kansyore" 24.75
    "Morocco_EN.SG" 7.9
    "Malawi_Fingira_2500BP" 3.95
    "distance%=0.1894 / distance=0.001894"

    Tanzania_PN
    "Israel_Peki'in_CA" 39.5
    "Mota.SG" 26.35
    "Kenya_Kansyore" 13.55
    "Morocco_EN.SG" 7.8
    "Tanzania_Zanzibar_1300BP" 7.7
    "South_Africa_2000BP.SG" 2.75
    "Kenya_LSA" 2.35
    "distance%=0.2496 / distance=0.002496"

    Spain_BellBeaker_o
    "Israel_Peki'in_CA" 40.7
    "Morocco_EN.SG" 19.6
    "Croatia_Osijek_MN_Sopot" 14.25
    "Sicily_MN" 12.35
    "Tanzania_Zanzibar_1300BP" 8.9
    "Mota.SG" 4.2
    "distance%=0.2781 / distance=0.002781"

    Sardinia_BellBeaker_o (the only one that wants any Natufian)
    "Morocco_EN.SG" 31.1
    "Israel_RaqefetCave_Natufian" 17.75
    "Israel_Peki'in_CA" 16.1
    "Macedonia_N" 15.95
    "Italy_GrottaContinenza_CA.SG" 9.6
    "South_Africa_2000BP.SG" 3.95
    "Tanzania_Zanzibar_1300BP" 2.8
    "Tanzania_Pemba_600BP" 2.75
    "distance%=0.1769 / distance=0.001769"

    Sardinia_BellBeaker_o (but removing it doesn't totally trash the fit)
    "Israel_Peki'in_CA" 44.7
    "Morocco_EN.SG" 33.45
    "South_Africa_2000BP.SG" 7.85
    "Macedonia_N" 6.5
    "Italy_N.SG" 5.75
    "Italy_CA.SG" 1.15
    "Tanzania_Zanzibar_1300BP" 0.55
    "Tanzania_Pemba_600BP" 0.05
    "distance%=0.2918 / distance=0.002918"

    Columns:,Anatolia_Barcin_N,Levant_N,Iran_GanjDareh _N,CHG.SG,Taforalt,Vanuatu_ancient,PrimorskyKrai_B oisman_MN,Peru_Laramate_900BP,Karelia_HG,IronGates _Meso1,Yamnaya_Samara,Ust_Ishim.DG

    Regress that back and it looks like we might find a population in Northeast Africa like...
    69% Peki'in_CA
    17% East-African
    14% Taforalt
    Last edited by Kale; 01-19-2021 at 04:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Saite View Post
    for early AA populations to have such resisting Dinka ancestry (reaching 9% in the model provided) along their migrations from NE Africa to NW Africa when both the Copts (including the far southern upper Egypt ones) and the ancient Egyptians tested up-to-the-moment not showing it. I find problematic. Worth to mention that if we replaced the Levant ISR with the combined Historic tested Egyptians -so far- it will still show a good fit too.
    Ancient Egyptians and Copts both show Sudanese ancestry despite being heavily admixed with BA Levantines and carrying minor Euro Steppe ancestry.The idea that the earliest speakers of AA carried Sudanese ancestry is not far-fetched at all

    IA & historical era Egyptians:
    Code:
    Target: Levant_Beirut_IAIII_Egyptian:SFI-44
    Distance: 3.0238% / 0.03023813
    58.2	Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
    27.6	Levant_PPNB
    6.2	Yamnaya_UKR
    3.8	SUDANESE7
    2.2	MAR_Taforalt
    2.0	MAR_LN
    
    Target: EGY_Late_Period:JK2911
    Distance: 2.2156% / 0.02215565
    35.8	Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
    32.6	Levant_JOR_EBA
    23.8	Levant_PPNB
    5.8	MAR_Taforalt
    1.6	SUDANESE7
    0.4	Yamnaya_UKR
    
    Target: EGY_Late_Period:JK2134
    Distance: 3.3999% / 0.03399880
    50.6	Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
    43.2	Levant_PPNB
    3.8	SUDANESE7
    2.2	MAR_Taforalt
    0.2	Yamnaya_UKR
    
    Target: EGY_Hellenistic:JK2888
    Distance: 4.3966% / 0.04396567
    52.8	Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
    41.2	Levant_PPNB
    4.0	SUDANESE7
    2.0	MAR_Taforalt
    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 2.8833% / 0.02883253
    93.8 Somali
    6.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    Target: Mother_scaled
    Distance: 2.7252% / 0.02725184
    91.8 Somali
    8.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    FTDNA myorigins 3.0:
    Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia & Somalia
    94%
    Yemenite Jewish
    6%

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Sudanese ancestry could have arrived with the earliest Berbers when they left NE Africa as this type of ancestry is found in the Cushites,Egyptians & Chadic speakers.


    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun012
    Distance: 2.0995% / 0.02099505
    30.2 MAR_Taforalt
    23.0 Levant_ISR_C
    20.8 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    16.6 MAR_LN
    9.4 Dinka


    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun008
    Distance: 2.7793% / 0.02779265
    34.2 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    31.6 Levant_ISR_C
    26.4 MAR_Taforalt
    6.0 Yoruba
    1.8 Dinka

    Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun011
    Distance: 2.0708% / 0.02070784
    33.4 MAR_Taforalt
    29.6 Bell_Beaker_Iberia
    29.6 Levant_ISR_C
    6.4 Yoruba
    1.0 Dinka


    I think it's shared alleles because of a common origin with the HOA population (which reinforced the idea of Proto-afroasiatics being located in the Near East or The Delta area) :


    A single prehistoric migration of both the Maghrebi and the Ethio-Somali back into Africa is the most parsimonious hypothesis. That is, a common ancestral population migrated into northeast Africa through the Sinai and then split into two, with one branch continuing west across North Africa and the other heading south into the HOA
    https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1004393

    This is also confirmed by the presence of the capsian culture both in Tunisia and Nubia

    There is no reason to believe a north-east african group settled in the Maghreb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabaon View Post
    I think it's shared alleles because of a common origin with the HOA population (which reinforced the idea of Proto-afroasiatics being located in the Near East or The Delta area) :




    https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1004393

    This is also confirmed by the presence of the capsian culture both in Tunisia and Nubia

    There is no reason to believe a north-east african group settled in the Maghreb.
    Dinka isn't a HOA population....

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