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Thread: Genomic Insights into the Demographic History of Southern Chinese

  1. #11
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    According to Yayul Chojae, a Korean blogger, many of Southern East Asian populations including southern Chinese and Southeast Asians were recently generated.
    So the higher genetic diversity among them which was taken as evidence for the origin of East Asians in the south resulted from admixture instead of greater time depth.
    I think he is right at some level.

    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    Do you have any suggestions about the subclades of Y haplogroups that predominate in these admixtures ?
    Very roughly
    ANE R Q
    Northern East Asian C2-F1067(northern branch of M217), N, Q
    Northwest East Asian(this paper calls this Sino-Tibetan) ?
    Southern East Asian O2-M122, C2-L1373(southern branch of M217), N-L729(southern branch)
    Coastal East Asian O1, O2

    From non-East Asians
    Northern East Asians picked up R and possibly Q(not clear which is the direction)
    Northwest East Asians, D and O(maybe)
    Coastal Southeast Asians, C1 and maybe D for Jomon

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ybmpark View Post
    According to Yayul Chojae, a Korean blogger, many of Southern East Asian populations including southern Chinese and Southeast Asians were recently generated.
    So the higher genetic diversity among them which was taken as evidence for the origin of East Asians in the south resulted from admixture instead of greater time depth.
    I think he is right at some level.



    Very roughly
    ANE R Q
    Northern East Asian C2-F1067(northern branch of M217), N, Q
    Northwest East Asian(this paper calls this Sino-Tibetan) ?
    Southern East Asian O2-M122, C2-L1373(southern branch of M217), N-L729(southern branch)
    Coastal East Asian O1, O2

    From non-East Asians
    Northern East Asians picked up R and possibly Q(not clear which is the direction)
    Northwest East Asians, D and O(maybe)
    Coastal Southeast Asians, C1 and maybe D for Jomon
    And F*, M, S, P*, P1*? Maybe they, too, are Coastal Southeast Asians? Or are they considered Southeast Eurasia?
    Last edited by VladimirTaraskin; 11-27-2020 at 05:29 PM.

  4. #13
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    M and S are almost exclusively Oceanean and not East Asian at all.
    P* is more ambiguous. It depends partially on whether Onge-like populations fall on the East asian side or Oceanian side and probably the phylogenetic postion of Tianyuan matters as well.
    Tianyuan shows that ~40000 YBP K2b(possibly ancestors of P) ranged far up north. Yana a few thousand years later have P* even farther north.
    But today P*'s are almost exclusively found among Island SEA west of Wallace Line. So it is possible that it was carried by very basal East Asians among which Tianyuan may have been.

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  6. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by adriyu View Post
    I'm curious how some Koreans ended up with the Miao component (yellow) while Taiwanese Hans have almost none.

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    How does ANE fit into all this, did it separate from a common ancestor with Tianyuan?

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by talljimmy0 View Post
    I'm curious how some Koreans ended up with the Miao component (yellow) while Taiwanese Hans have almost none.
    I think that sample was mislabeled or the individual is admixed. It lies outside of the usual variation for Koreans who are very homogeneous.
    He or she is rather indistinguishable from northern Han Chinese.

    Quote Originally Posted by vasil View Post
    How does ANE fit into all this, did it separate from a common ancestor with Tianyuan?
    ANE falls on the West Eurasian side but generally with some(25-30 percent?) admixture from East Asians or East Eurasians.
    A relatively pure ANE without East Eurasian admixture has not been found so far but many people are curious. Especially about his Y-Chromosome.
    Last edited by ybmpark; 11-27-2020 at 07:18 PM.

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  10. #17
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    I think Y haplogroup O, specifically O2, is a fairly strong candidate for being present in Proto Sino-Tibetan since it's found in high frequencies in both Sinitic and Tibeto-Burman speakers across very large distances.

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  12. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ybmpark View Post
    I think that sample was mislabeled or the individual is admixed. It lies outside of the usual variation for Koreans who are very homogeneous.
    He or she is rather indistinguishable from northern Han Chinese.


    ANE falls on the West Eurasian side but generally with some(25-30 percent?) admixture from East Asians or East Eurasians.
    A relatively pure ANE without East Eurasian admixture has not been found so far but many people are curious. Especially about his Y-Chromosome.
    Probably some subclade of y C. Although it would probably best be called pre-ANE if that since ANE is the mixture of 2 components.

  13. #19
    Is the difference between Southern Chinese and Northern Chinese big or negligible? I remember reading somewhere that Northern Chinese and Southern Chinese are "very different", but I also heard the opposite stating that Northern Chinese and Southern Chinese are actually quite homogenous and similar.

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    Labeled version of Fig 1A


    Unlabeled version of Fig 1B (Southern East Asians only). Malays are in blue but closer to the Austronesian cluster. Thai are split between an extreme outlier cluster at the far bottom, and a "Thai Chinese" cluster closer to Lao and Kinh (Vietnamese). The "nearer" blue outlier clusters are Htin and Mang. Cambodian and Lao are relatively close to each other. Vietnamese clusters with the Kra-Dai cluster. Modern-day Filipinos generally resemble "Ancient Taiwan" for the most part.



    Key
    Last edited by okarinaofsteiner; 11-28-2020 at 11:55 PM. Reason: quick analysis of Fig 1B

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