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Thread: Evidence of South Asian admixture in some Philipinos

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    There is no way to prove this but ANE is probably pre Iran_N ( or Indian Mesolithic Iran_N like). Since almost everyone shows ANE signal in South Asia ( even the tribals). Even if it came at the same time we don't have enough Malta boys. I just don't think without more samples there is a good answer. Add to that it's too long ago, so we won't find it in modern populations.
    So there are possibly six waves of predominantly West Eurasian populations to the subcontient.

    - An Anatolian/Levantine wave associated with y H and mt R/U2ab
    - An ANE wave associated with R2/LT?
    - A possibly Mesolithic wave from Iran associated with R2/LT?
    - A smaller Neolithic wave from Iran - G2/J2?
    - Indo-Iranians - R1a
    - later Iranic steppe nomads - R1a

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  3. #12
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    The results are not surprising to be honest. Fillipino ethnic groups generally have the lowest South Asian ancestry out of the Indianzed South-east Asian regions. Having said that, I think a small part of the (W eurasian) ancestry in some fillipinos is Spanish related, though I don't think most have detectable levels of it.

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    My father-in-law, from Manila Metro, his family has a strong (but not recent) European (maybe Catalan?) pull, and maybe some South Asian:

    Distance: 0.5212% / 0.00521173
    Target: FIL
    28.6 Luzon
    18.3 Han_Chongqing
    14.5 Hawaiian
    13.4 Igorot
    6.8 Italian_Liguria
    4.4 Spanish_Soria
    3.3 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    2.7 Greek_Peloponnese
    2.7 Khonda_Dora
    1.4 Htin_Mal [Malaysian/Burmese?]
    1.1 Biaka
    1.1 Bosnian
    1.0 BedouinB
    0.3 Colla
    0.3 Sardinian
    0.1 Mbuti
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    The results are not surprising to be honest. Fillipino ethnic groups generally have the lowest South Asian ancestry out of the Indianzed South-east Asian regions. Having said that, I think a small part of the (W eurasian) ancestry in some fillipinos is Spanish related, though I don't think most have detectable levels of it.
    Do you think it is because of the geographical distance from the subcontinent or do you think it is because of the Spaniards who could have annhilated and wiped out any potential precolonial Indian settlements in the archipelago? Because I have read that there are evidence of several Indianized Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms in the Philippines and I think for such cultural transfusion, there must have been some Indian traders and settlers as well.

    How much West Eurasian ancestry do you think the average Filipino have? Around 1-5%?

    Would you say that Filipinos have one of the lowest West Eurasian ancestry in SE Asia? Like they seem to have much less than Burmese, Thais, Malays, Cambodians, a lot of Western Indonesians, but have more West Eurasian than most Laotians, Vietnamese, Eastern Indonesians/Timorese, remote tribal groups and ethnic minorities in the mainland and maritime regions of SE Asia who almost virtually none.

    Finally, do you think the first two Filipina results who have 11-13% S Indian, have recent Indian ancestry or do you think its from the precolonial times? Because all the other results, seem to have only 6.5% and much less South Asian (S Indian) on Harappa.
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 12-03-2020 at 02:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    My father-in-law, from Manila Metro, his family has a strong (but not recent) European (maybe Catalan?) pull, and maybe some South Asian:

    Distance: 0.5212% / 0.00521173
    Target: FIL
    28.6 Luzon
    18.3 Han_Chongqing
    14.5 Hawaiian
    13.4 Igorot
    6.8 Italian_Liguria
    4.4 Spanish_Soria
    3.3 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    2.7 Greek_Peloponnese
    2.7 Khonda_Dora
    1.4 Htin_Mal [Malaysian/Burmese?]
    1.1 Biaka
    1.1 Bosnian
    1.0 BedouinB
    0.3 Colla
    0.3 Sardinian
    0.1 Mbuti
    His European is not recent? Interesting because most Pinoys have much much less West Eurasian than him. The South Asian could be genuine or something AASI related.

    So he is around 15.3% European, 4.3% MENA, 18.3% Chinese and even 1% African? Wow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsakhur View Post
    His European is not recent? Interesting because most Pinoys have much much less West Eurasian than him. The South Asian could be genuine or something AASI related.

    So he is around 15.3% European, 4.3% MENA, 18.3% Chinese and even 1% African? Wow
    It gets stranger: At FTDNA, his top 3 occurring surname matches are Kaplan, Rosen and Cohen I think he's got some conversos in his ancestry. His mother's surname is Catalan, but nobody seems to know of any specific European/Med. ancestors.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    It gets stranger: At FTDNA, his top 3 occurring surname matches are Kaplan, Rosen and Cohen I think he's got some conversos in his ancestry. His mother's surname is Catalan, but nobody seems to know of any specific European/Med. ancestors.
    I wonder what percentage of the Philippines have his amount of West Eurasian ancestry which is around 15%? Most Filos have only 1-5% West Eurasian (primarily of Iberian admixture) from what I observed in their Gedmatch results, those who are 10% West Eurasian seems to be a minority, and those who are like more than 10% and up to 15% or more seems very atypical or even rare.

    Fascinating. Before he decided to take the DNA tests, does he and his family already know or suspect they have European or Med ancestors or do they think they are just pure Filipinos?

    Btw I know this forum doesn't really allow phenotypic discussion, but does he look European admixed, or does he look like a typical Filipino (Asian looking)?
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 12-03-2020 at 02:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsakhur View Post
    Do you think it is because of the geographical distance from the subcontinent or do you think it is because of the Spaniards who could have annhilated and wiped out any potential precolonial Indian settlements in the archipelago? Because I have read that there are evidence of several Indianized Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms in the Philippines and I think for such cultural transfusion, there must have been some Indian traders and settlers as well.

    How much West Eurasian ancestry do you think the average Filipino have? Around 1-5%?

    Would you say that Filipinos have one of the lowest West Eurasian ancestry in SE Asia? Like they seem to have much less than Burmese, Thais, Malays, Cambodians, a lot of Western Indonesians, but have more West Eurasian than most Laotians, Vietnamese, Eastern Indonesians/Timorese, remote tribal groups and ethnic minorities in the mainland and maritime regions of SE Asia who almost virtually none.

    Finally, do you think the first two Filipina results who have 11-13% S Indian, have recent Indian ancestry or do you think its from the precolonial times? Because all the other results, seem to have only 6.5% and much less South Asian (S Indian) on Harappa.
    I think its geographic distance. Also the fact that the Philippines archipelago wasn't as deeply influenced as the rest of SEA. Yeah I think that range is probably correct and it one of the lowest after vietnamese or very tribal populations. Those samples probably have pre colonial, maybe just genetic variance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    I think its geographic distance. Also the fact that the Philippines archipelago wasn't as deeply influenced as the rest of SEA. Yeah I think that range is probably correct and it one of the lowest after vietnamese or very tribal populations. Those samples probably have pre colonial, maybe just genetic variance.
    Agreed. It's pretty hilarious how a lot of Filipinos expected that they would have high West Eurasian due to Spaniard ancestors and then get really disappointed when it turned out to that they have like less than 5% or even close to zero in some cases. Most Pinoy gedmatch results seem to have around 1-5% West Eurasian range. More than 5% existed but as not common, also Filos who are 10% West Eurasian or more seem to be a minority, and those up to 15 to 20% Iberian seem to be very atypical or even rare.

    But all of the 15 individuals do seem to have actual Indian ancestry just by looking at the fact that they also score minor Baloch? Or Baloch component is not enough to indicate that they have actual Indian gene flow?

    I see. Yeah it could be precolonial or genetic variance. Btw, the first Filipina individual seem to be originally from Zamboanga which is in Mindanao, in Southern Philippines, closer to Indonesia and Malaysia, so maybe higher South Asian admixture there compared to the rest of the archipelago. Not sure about the second Filipina. Also I heard that there were recent Sepoy settlers in Cainta which is in Luzon in the 18th century and intermarried with locals along with recent Indian (mainly Punjabi) businessmen but Im not sure if it is too recent, for their genes to be absorbed into the general genetic pool of Pinoys.

    Off topic but who do you think has more South Asian admixture in the region: Rakhine or Acehnese?
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 12-03-2020 at 06:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsakhur View Post
    I wonder what percentage of the Philippines have his amount of West Eurasian ancestry which is around 15%? Most Filos have only 1-5% West Eurasian (primarily of Iberian admixture) from what I observed in their Gedmatch results, those who are 10% West Eurasian seems to be a minority, and those who are like more than 10% and up to 15% or more seems very atypical or even rare.

    Fascinating. Before he decided to take the DNA tests, does he and his family already know or suspect they have European or Med ancestors or do they think they are just pure Filipinos?

    Btw I know this forum doesn't really allow phenotypic discussion, but does he look European admixed, or does he look like a typical Filipino (Asian looking)?
    Pretty typical, maybe like a thinner, older Toshiro Mifune (with mustache/goatee)
    Since his family is from the Metro Manila area, I think the odds of foreign contact over the centuries are both a lot higher and harder to nail down.
    The Manila galleons alone sailed to/from there for 250 years.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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