Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: An SSA_Like Outlier among Karelian Hunter-gatherers of Russia (EHG) ?

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    193
    Sex
    Location
    Sydney
    Ethnicity
    Egyptian Copt
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M78 (E-V22)
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a7
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-M78 (E-PF3198)
    mtDNA (P)
    M1a1

    Egypt Australia

    An SSA_Like Outlier among Karelian Hunter-gatherers of Russia (EHG) ?

    So I was going through images of ancient HG individuals trying to somehow correlate between Phenotypic skull traits and admixture Ancestry since I sensed some Potential in that, regardless I was surprised to see an SSA_Like Shift? in one of the supposedly Karelian's EHG Photos




    Of course unlikely to be a direct SSA and assuming I'm not misjudging the Features. What's your opinion and take about this archaic traits, guys? if anyone wondering about sources. here are they.
    Last edited by The Saite; 11-28-2020 at 10:09 AM.
    Autosomal using ancient populations :
    93% Late Period Ancient Egyptian, 4% JOR_EBA, 3% GRC_Minoan_Lassithi (Just another G25's Scaled results with a Suitable fit).

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to The Saite For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (11-28-2020)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    541
    Sex
    Location
    England
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a10a

    United States of America England
    Well you have the skull's measurements in the paper. Compare them with a database of what is typical for various SSA populations and see what that tells you.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to J1 DYS388=13 For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (11-28-2020),  The Saite (11-28-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    193
    Sex
    Location
    Sydney
    Ethnicity
    Egyptian Copt
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M78 (E-V22)
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a7
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-M78 (E-PF3198)
    mtDNA (P)
    M1a1

    Egypt Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by J1 DYS388=13 View Post
    Well you have the skull's measurements in the paper. Compare them with a database of what is typical for various SSA populations and see what that tells you.
    Thanks for passing by, yes I should indeed get the measurements and compare them. Wanted also to add that the reason I'm sharing this. Is my interests at those Archaic_like features appearing in various old Specimen from time to time. (Not that I'm some sort of Afro-Centrist or something).

    As a matter of fact some of the Other Karelian HG demonstrates an interesting type of features as if it's Neanderthal driven (I say this with Caution since I don't wanna sound silly at this one, and I'm only giving opinions here. Of course not claiming to be some kind of Expert either).
    Last edited by The Saite; 11-28-2020 at 02:48 AM.
    Autosomal using ancient populations :
    93% Late Period Ancient Egyptian, 4% JOR_EBA, 3% GRC_Minoan_Lassithi (Just another G25's Scaled results with a Suitable fit).

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    192
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Swiss
    Nationality
    Swiss
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L2
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5a

    Switzerland Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by The Saite View Post
    Thanks for passing by, yes I should indeed get the measurements and compare them. Wanted also to add that the reason I'm sharing this. Is my interests at those Archaic_like features appearing in various old Specimen from time to time. (Not that I'm some sort of Afro-Centrist or something).

    As a matter of fact some of the Other Karelian HG demonstrates an interesting type of features as if it's Neanderthal driven (I say this with Caution since I don't wanna sound silly at this one, and I'm only giving opinions here. Of course not claiming to be some kind of Expert either).
    I gotta say, Karelian HG's skulls and other prehistoric russians skulls always looked special to me.

  7. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    831
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by The Saite View Post
    So I was going through images of ancient HG individuals trying to correlate between Phenotypic skull traits and admixture Ancestry since I sensed some Potential in that, regardless I was surprised to see an SSA_Like Shift? in one of the supposedly Karelian's EHG Photos




    Of course unlikely to be a direct SSA and assuming I'm not misjudging the Features. What's your opinion and take about this, guys? if anyone wondering about sources. here are they.
    What haplogrous it belongs to?

  8. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    193
    Sex
    Location
    Sydney
    Ethnicity
    Egyptian Copt
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M78 (E-V22)
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a7
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-M78 (E-PF3198)
    mtDNA (P)
    M1a1

    Egypt Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    What haplogrous it belongs to?
    Karelia HG had both of R1a-M459 and J1 Haplogroups at that time, while mostly MT-DNA U (one which is U4) but with presence of C also
    Autosomal using ancient populations :
    93% Late Period Ancient Egyptian, 4% JOR_EBA, 3% GRC_Minoan_Lassithi (Just another G25's Scaled results with a Suitable fit).

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to The Saite For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (11-28-2020)

  10. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    192
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Swiss
    Nationality
    Swiss
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L2
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5a

    Switzerland Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by The Saite View Post
    So I was going through images of ancient HG individuals trying to correlate between Phenotypic skull traits and admixture Ancestry since I sensed some Potential in that, regardless I was surprised to see an SSA_Like Shift? in one of the supposedly Karelian's EHG Photos




    Of course unlikely to be a direct SSA and assuming I'm not misjudging the Features. What's your opinion and take about this, guys? if anyone wondering about sources. here are they.
    Are you basing it on the Prognathism? Archaic features might be a better phrasing than SSA-like.

  11. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    193
    Sex
    Location
    Sydney
    Ethnicity
    Egyptian Copt
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M78 (E-V22)
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a7
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-M78 (E-PF3198)
    mtDNA (P)
    M1a1

    Egypt Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Are you basing it on the Prognathism? Archaic features might be a better phrasing than SSA-like.
    Not only the pronounced Prognathism it has, the Nasal Circular shape and both of the somewhat Rectangular eye sockets (notice the wide area between the eyes as well) then lastly the Jaw line, are all indicating such an outlier look compared to the other Karelian Crania (but one can wonder if they are all having a similar Autosomal make up eventually). Furthermore you are actually right, Archaic Features are a better situation describing than SSA_like
    Last edited by The Saite; 11-28-2020 at 11:26 AM.

  12. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    192
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Swiss
    Nationality
    Swiss
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L2
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5a

    Switzerland Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by The Saite View Post
    Not only the pronounced Prognathism it has, the Nasal Circular shape and both of the somewhat Rectangular eye sockets (notice the wide area between the eyes as well) then lastly the Jaw line, are all indicating such an outlier look compared to the other Karelian Crania (but one can wonder if they are all having a similar Autosomal make up eventually). Furthermore you are actually right, Archaic Features are a better situation describing than SSA_like
    Could make sense that eastern euro's had few more archaic features ( kostenki-dolni vestonice-like ) than western euro already pretty much replaced by neolithic mediterranean features at the same time. But square eye socket and prognathism are pretty common features in euro populations and others. The jaw line as the cranium of one looks very Predmosti-Neanderthal like, so archaic. As i said, they are very mysterious individuals.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to halfalp For This Useful Post:

     davit (11-29-2020),  Jatt1 (11-28-2020)

  14. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    193
    Sex
    Location
    Sydney
    Ethnicity
    Egyptian Copt
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M78 (E-V22)
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a7
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-M78 (E-PF3198)
    mtDNA (P)
    M1a1

    Egypt Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Could make sense that eastern euro's had few more archaic features ( kostenki-dolni vestonice-like ) than western euro already pretty much replaced by neolithic mediterranean features at the same time. But square eye socket and prognathism are pretty common features in euro populations and others. The jaw line as the cranium of one looks very Predmosti-Neanderthal like, so archaic. As i said, they are very mysterious individuals.
    Yeah, on the other hand. My own take out if it. That one should be Cautious in Judging the Genetic Composition of old individuals based on looks, specially in MENA Where deep ancestries are pretty common phenomena among ancient skeletons. No wonder some old Anthropologists with their studies mixed things up and consider plenty of non-SSA populations as either SSA or SSA shifted.
    Autosomal using ancient populations :
    93% Late Period Ancient Egyptian, 4% JOR_EBA, 3% GRC_Minoan_Lassithi (Just another G25's Scaled results with a Suitable fit).

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to The Saite For This Useful Post:

     davit (11-29-2020)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 107
    Last Post: 10-13-2018, 03:46 AM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-12-2018, 09:12 AM
  3. Is possibly metallurgy born with hunter-gatherers ?
    By halfalp in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 01-14-2017, 09:43 PM
  4. Last hunter-gatherers of Europe
    By J Man in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-31-2014, 11:23 PM
  5. Early R1b-Zarzian hunter gatherers in Iran?
    By alan in forum R1b Early Subclades
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 08-19-2013, 10:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •