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Thread: Modern people belonging ancient basal haplogroups

  1. #1
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    Modern people belonging ancient basal haplogroups

    I'd like to comprehend the ultimate meaning of modern people belonging ancient basal haplogroups (e.g. P1*).
    I'm PH92*. Well, I get that unless more people with similar SNPs are investigated, this is a "provisional" haplogroup.
    But what about people belonging to these old basal haplogroups, like P1*, which is like 20.000 years old. Of course these people have gone under approximately the same number of mutations as the rest of us with "modern" haplogroups, it's just that these mutations are not "classified".
    Does it just mean that they might belong to a small group that hasn't been well investigated? Does it mean that the possible origin of that old haplogroup (P1 in this example) is the place where they live now? Or does it mean ... just nothing?

    Thanks in advance.

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    P is mostly found in SE Asia but probably originated in a NE Asian population (Tianyuan). Not sure why SE Asia preserved diversity of this lineage better.

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    Well, P1* is just an example, what I'd like is to understand is the ultimate meaning (if there is such meaning) of this concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alvaroabascal View Post
    I'd like to comprehend the ultimate meaning of modern people belonging ancient basal haplogroups (e.g. P1*).
    I'm PH92*. Well, I get that unless more people with similar SNPs are investigated, this is a "provisional" haplogroup.
    But what about people belonging to these old basal haplogroups, like P1*, which is like 20.000 years old. Of course these people have gone under approximately the same number of mutations as the rest of us with "modern" haplogroups, it's just that these mutations are not "classified".
    Does it just mean that they might belong to a small group that hasn't been well investigated? Does it mean that the possible origin of that old haplogroup (P1 in this example) is the place where they live now? Or does it mean ... just nothing?

    Thanks in advance.
    To be honest, I don't know what "ancient basal haplogroup" mean, since I never heared this term, before.
    I don't know, if I understoud your question correctly, since you gave the answers already, but I will try to give you my point of view.

    The asterix behind PH92 just means in case of YFull, that there is a single sample, which doesn't share any of the "private" variants with all others of the database and doesn't belong to the existing know subclades. I use the term "generic clades" for the asterix clades. It is, like you already mention a kind of "virtual" clade, with just one sample.
    It is the same for P1, but if we have a look, we will see, that there is no P1* sample at YFull. There is one sample, who belongs to P-BY49600. This indicates, that there are more samples of BY49600 in other databases apart from the (maybe) only sample at YFull. I did look at FTDNA and indeed there are three samples from Phillipines in two subclades of BY49600. BY49600.PNG
    These two subclades are about 35 SNPs apart from each other, so they could have a TMRCA of about 2500 ybp. roughly estimated.
    There are some more interesting subclades at FTDNA. PF20148.PNG PF20148, the father clade of P-BY49600. I stop at that point with showing images from FTDNA, because it went very P1-specific. What I just wanted to show is, that you have to check all other databases too, to see if a clade is generic in real or has more clading in other databases. If I progress with the information I get there, I can't give you an answer to your last qustion.
    So, maybe make it short.
    check, if there are more samples in other databases.
    Just the country of one living sample does not give an evidence, that the haplogroup emerged at that place.

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