Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Project update: Z209/S230 Z210 Z215/S357 Z220/S356 Z268/S450 Z271 Z296 Z694

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,136
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Project update: Z209/S230 Z210 Z215/S357 Z220/S356 Z268/S450 Z271 Z296 Z694

    The R-Z209 project at FTDNA has grown quite a bit so I went through each branch and added a subgroup for each branch and indexed them so they appear in the sequence as they do on FTDNA’s haplotree.

    I posted an overview descendants tree chart on the About/Results web page. You can download the .PDF version. The .PDF version is easiest to read when zooming in and out or panning. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups.../about/results
    It is a draft version.

    The full tree for R1b-Z209 is at the FTDNA web site. There are now 420 downstream branches

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public.../R;name=R-Z209

    Project has 365 members but I have a spreadsheet of over a thousand that I believe are either confirmed Z209+ of some type or cluster nicely with the North-South cluster.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     ehjelt (12-01-2020),  Webb (12-01-2020)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,136
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    It is important to note this is sub-project of the R-DF27 and R1b All Subclades projects. We do want all Z209+ and descendant people to join as well as North-South cluster predicted Z209 people. However, it is important to stay in these other projects as well.

    Th R1b North-South modal haplotype was discovered prior to the discovery of Z209+ and DF27+. North-South is essentially the Super Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype with three exceptions: DYS437=14 DYS448=18 GataH4=10. Fortunately, these are in the Y37 STR marker panel. These STR values are not 100% absolute but generally work. A number of Iberian Z209+ people have the standard GataH4=11. DYS448 can also vary, but DYS437 is almost always =14, though.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     Mythtown (12-05-2020),  Webb (12-01-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,358
    Sex
    Location
    Dansleau
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27>CTS4065
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b2b3a

    Lorraine French Southern and Antarctic Lands
    thanks Tiger, i just joined this project.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ric For This Useful Post:

     TigerMW (12-01-2020),  Webb (12-01-2020)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,739
    Ethnicity
    Pred.Anglo-Saxon + Briton
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b S21184, BY50830+
    mtDNA (M)
    U4b1a2 - FGS
    Y-DNA (M)
    ?
    mtDNA (P)
    I2

    Canada England Wales Netherlands France Cornwall
    Tiger, some of the unidentified groupings you have assigned an abbreviation + STR label. In some cases it looks like you've linked it to an existing surname, but others, I can't for the life of me understand what it means. Thoughts?
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to ADW_1981 For This Useful Post:

     Webb (12-06-2020)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,136
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Tiger, some of the unidentified groupings you have assigned an abbreviation + STR label. In some cases it looks like you've linked it to an existing surname, but others, I can't for the life of me understand what it means. Thoughts?
    Those are labels I assign to STR signatures that I think are reliable. I place these STR based subgroups on to the Y Classic report approximately where I think they fit vis a vis SNP validated subgroups.

    The labels are fairly meaningless. I generally take the two most common SNP confirmed surnames in a cluster and take two letters from each surname to come up with an identifying 4 character label. It may seem odd to see only one in a cluster but I am just starting this STR signature analysis and I may have identified 5-6 individuals in a cluster but only one has joined the Z209 project. This is why I want everyone to invite their Y111 and Y67 matches to the project.

    We have 350+ individuals in the project but my spreadsheet has about 1100 people who are confirmed or predicted Z209. I have over 30 STR based clusters so far.
    Last edited by TigerMW; 12-03-2020 at 04:30 AM.

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     ADW_1981 (12-03-2020),  JMcB (12-05-2020),  Webb (12-06-2020)

  11. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,136
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    I've updated the tip of the iceberg R1b-Z209 Descendants Tree. You can see it here.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups.../about/results

    I tried to add in the most common countries of origin to some of the early and larger branches.

    It is interesting to see how continental the branching structure appears. If I had to bet I'd say Z209 started some place like Germany/Switzerland and expanded out of several major cultural horizons:
    Kurgan Bell Beakers
    Unetice (maybe)
    Tumulus
    Urnfield
    Hallstatt

    There are plenty of Spanish too. If there is a subclade of Z209 that is pure Spanish and Basque it would be R-CTS8087.

    Given the continental bent for many of Z209's early branching, perhaps (speculation) CTS8087 is what a Celtiberian group looks like.

    Full haplotree:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public.../R;name=R-Z209
    Last edited by TigerMW; 12-05-2020 at 08:35 PM.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (12-05-2020),  Webb (12-06-2020)

  13. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,136
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Finally, I am starting to feel like I am getting the subgroups in shape and populated. There is still a long way to go to getting them populated. We need help from everyone. Please...

    1) Check the project web pages. Is your surname and variants of it listed? Does the Y Classic display show you in the right subgroup? Have you looked at STR signatures for your subclade?

    2) Recruit, recruit, recruit. Please invite all your Y67 and Y111 matches to the project. Please invite any Z209+ or downstream people you see to the project.
    Thanks.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (12-13-2020),  Sean Deven Vincent (12-08-2020),  Webb (12-07-2020)

  15. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5
    Sex
    Location
    Central North America
    Ethnicity
    NW Europe
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27-z195-FT372222
    mtDNA (M)
    T2b

    United States of America England North of England Scotland
    Tiger,

    Thank you for your work in the 209/220 subclades family. For the most part, the group has been in a sort of gray area. I am in the 209 and subclades project at FtDna. You have me grouped with the older Z209>FGC83504>ZZ40>FGC23351>FGC23343 grouping. With a new tester within the last month or so I have been moved down to R-FT372222.
    My kit designation is Vincent 612257. Thank you

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Sean Deven Vincent For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (12-13-2020)

  17. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,136
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Deven Vincent View Post
    Tiger,

    Thank you for your work in the 209/220 subclades family. For the most part, the group has been in a sort of gray area. I am in the 209 and subclades project at FtDna. You have me grouped with the older Z209>FGC83504>ZZ40>FGC23351>FGC23343 grouping. With a new tester within the last month or so I have been moved down to R-FT372222.
    My kit designation is Vincent 612257. Thank you
    I will get you moved. I want the project to have an understandable and objective structure that can be kept up to date. It may seem odd, but the more (relevant) people you have in a project, not only the more informative it is but also the easier to maintain. That's because unpopulated subgroups do not show up on the Y Classic report.

    Fortunately, the subclade itself as its own STR signature and the audience of testers is of a size it can be maintained with good detail.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (12-13-2020),  Sean Deven Vincent (12-19-2020)

Similar Threads

  1. The big R1b project - update
    By TigerMW in forum R1b General
    Replies: 129
    Last Post: 02-05-2020, 10:24 PM
  2. Replies: 66
    Last Post: 01-27-2020, 07:09 PM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-24-2017, 10:18 PM
  4. U5 project update
    By GailT in forum U
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-24-2017, 06:01 AM
  5. Replies: 32
    Last Post: 01-24-2016, 05:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •