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Thread: Need Your Help: How much Arab settlement in Umayyad area?

  1. #21
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    To answer your first question, I read in the book by Hugh Kennedy: The Great Arab Conquests. How the Spread of Islam Changed the World We Live In, that various desert Bedouin tribes and Yemenite tribes took part in the earlier campaigns against the Byzantines. The leaders of the campaigns were Hejazis (Quraish etc). We don't have historic genetic samples from the region but Bedouins tend to be high in Basal Eurasian admixture. And maybe our knowledge of haplogroups prevalent among certain Arab regions might help answer your question about genetic admixture. I agree with the fact that most of the Byzantine population was Christian and Kennedy writes that after the first successful campaign against the Byzantines, local infrastructure in terms of govt apparatus and the population remained in place as they were. Even in the later Ummayad period, much of northern Syria, Iraq, Lebanon remained Christians.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post
    So, this is outside of geographical area described at the beginning, but there was a study about potential descendants of Arab missionaries among Kazakhs, but it didn't found reliable confirmation of such claims:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-03176-z

    ...

    The spread of Islam was one of the most powerful cultural expansions of West, South and Central Asia. There are ethnographic and genealogical findings identifying the demic traces of Arabs in Transoxiana. In particular, the clans Kozha and Sunak are traditionally considered as descendants of the Prophet Muhammad’s close paternal-line relatives (Supplementary Text).

    ...
    These are the same clowns (Oleg Balanovsky, Maxat Zhabagin, Zhaxylyk Sabitov) which claimed (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4388827/) that the Argyns (who are obviously speaking the Turkic language and are descendants of the Turkic speaking medieval tribes) are related to the Iranic speaking medieval tribes just because they found high frequencies of G1 in some Armenian speaking groups. They also find high frequencies of E1b, J1, J2, R1b among Armenians, then what to say about these? And G1 is not only found among Armenians in high frequencies.

    Determining the original ethnic language of a modern group of people based on the genetics of other modern groups of people (and also being blind on purpose to other well known published data just because it doesnt fit their agenda) is pseudo science and smells of political and intellegence agency plans.

    Also according to the discussions in several Russian speaking forums, one of the above mentioned clowns are trying to slander the work of Leyla Djansugurova (who claimed to find also (besides G1) high frequencies of other Y-haplogroups like L and T among the Argyns, concluding that the Argyns are not only declared by a single paternal haplogroup).

    Besides this, most of the historical medieval claims in Western and Central Asia of being paternal descendants of the Prophet Muhammad, are proven to be fabricated lies. In the medieval period people of high status declared on purpose that they were descendants of the Prophet Muhammad (while they are not) to become more respected in the society they were living in. And there are tons of historical documents showing such claims were obvious lies. The same claims were done on behalf of Genghis Khan, claiming to be a descendant (while they are not) of him or his tribe (Kiyat) was also a well known method used in the medieval Western and Central Asian period.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    There's been some studies on Sudanese populations (Arab,Nubians,Beja etc) but also its clear from uniparentals, Sudanese Arabs and even Nubians have extremely high levels of J1 compared to the rest of North Africa (Egypt & Arabized Amazigh Maghreb)
    ok, do you have a link ?
    I was looking in google scholar, and I couldn't find.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamm View Post
    That map has some errors, but its hard to document every single tribe but I've done an attempt at it and made my own Moroccan tribal affiliation map (which also has errors but is the most accurate tribal map at this point when it comes to Morocco). Regarding your questions I hope I can give it a try tomorrow:

    Thanks Adamm! What are your thoughts?
    As a Moroccan (I presume) do you agree that most people in Morocco would know their affiliation from the tribe- to the extended family-levels?
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamm View Post
    https://i.imgur.com/tKYMciY.png
    Now that's what I'm talking about. Love detailed maps like this. Nice work.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

  8. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    And to that I'll add the famous Nabbateans, Ghassanids, Itureans as well to the Qedarites, and here are some maps of their influence (estimated, as these people were usually nomadic):

    Qedarites:
    Attachment 41519

    Nabateans:
    Attachment 41520

    Salihids:
    Attachment 41521

    Tanukh:
    Attachment 41522

    Ghassinids:
    Attachment 41523

    As mentioned, these are all pre-Islamic.
    I'm also glad that you brought the Itureans here since we have some epigraphic evidence of them being Arabs based on their names and some of the Safaitic inscriptions:
    The previous text is from Rif Dimashq; this text comes from the Damascus Museum. l ʾ{n}{ʿ}m bn sg----lh w tswq ʾl- yẓr f h lt sl[----]m w qbll -- the author explains that he longs for Iturea and asks for security and a reunion of loved ones from the goddess Allat.

    https://twitter.com/Safaitic/status/...057666/photo/1

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIncredibleHulk View Post
    I'm also glad that you brought the Itureans here since we have some epigraphic evidence of them being Arabs based on their names and some of the Safaitic inscriptions:
    I think this video you once shared would be useful for people on this particular subject:


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  12. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    I think this video you once shared would be useful for people on this particular subject:

    I did, and I enjoyed this talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    Thanks Adamm! What are your thoughts?
    As a Moroccan (I presume) do you agree that most people in Morocco would know their affiliation from the tribe- to the extended family-levels?
    something strange with this map.
    Howara are considered Zenata in Oujda, Arabized in Taza and Sanhdaja in Souss.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    Thanks Adamm! What are your thoughts?
    As a Moroccan (I presume) do you agree that most people in Morocco would know their affiliation from the tribe- to the extended family-levels?
    Yes i think so
    and just as an information , Zenata , Senhaja , Masmuda , Kutama , Jazoula , Luwata are some berber branches
    37.2 Iberomaurusian
    36.0 Early_European_Farmer
    8.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
    7.8 Steppe_Pastoralist
    5.4 Iran_Neolithic
    5.0 SSA


    Paternal Haplogroup == Hidden Content == YF80557

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