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Thread: Sketches of ZZ12 branches

  1. #1
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    H1j4

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    Sketches of ZZ12 branches

    Here are some sketches I made of the major subclades of ZZ12 as seen in the FTDNA public haplotree:

    ZZ12
    ZZ12sketch.png

    FGC78762
    FGC78762sketch.png

    Z2552 and FGC20747
    otherZZ12sketch.png
    Most of my family is from Tennessee, though a few of my ancestors are from adjacent areas of North Carolina and Georgia. My paternal line is positive for Z30682, underneath J-Z7671 and Y11200.

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  3. #2
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    Sketch of PF6551 Branch

    Hi all,

    I've created a sketch of my maternal grandfather's branch of ZZ12 (attached). His surname was Fraser, and his 3rd great-grandfather immigrated to the U.S. from Scotland (Inverness). We haven't been able to trace back any further with any certainty. The FTDNA Fraser and Septs project currently has him labeled under "Not matched (at a certain level) in this project and needing others to upgrade (or join)."

    Apparently, DF27 is rare in Scotland. So, I'm curious how he ended up with it. Maybe descended from an early migration to Britain and made its way up to Scotland? Or possibly Normans (the Fraser clan, as well as some others, are said to have been founded by Normans)? Would appreciate any insights anyone might have; though my understanding is that DF27 is currently under-tested and under-studied, and our grasp of its origin and expansion is quite limited.

    In true DF27 fashion, the results of my sketch are a bit all over the place. Looking at my sketch, the only things I -with my very limited understanding- am gleaning is that:

    1) DF27's wide spread extends to, and is reinforced by, this branch; and
    2) BY50050 may indicate the creation of a branch native and exclusive to the British Isles (downstream Irish could be Ulster Scots?)

    One of the more perplexing things to me is the positive tester from Spain in BY49178 above my grandfather's terminal BY50050. I suppose we don't know how much time passed in between. I also know the small sample size involved doesn't help, nor the French ban on genealogical and recreational DNA testing.

    For what it's worth, my grandfather's current V3 autosomal results from FTDNA are -
    England, Wales, and Scotland: 65%
    Central Europe: 21%
    Ireland: 14%

    Thank you,
    tehorner
    Je suis prest

    P.S. This is my first post, so please go easy on me!

    DF27 R-PF6551 Diagram.png
    Last edited by tehorner; 03-13-2021 at 07:43 AM.

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehorner View Post
    Hi all,

    I've created a sketch of my maternal grandfather's branch of ZZ12 (attached). His surname was Fraser, and his 3rd great-grandfather immigrated to the U.S. from Scotland (Inverness). We haven't been able to trace back any further with any certainty. The FTDNA Fraser and Septs project currently has him labeled under "Not matched (at a certain level) in this project and needing others to upgrade (or join)."

    Apparently, DF27 is rare in Scotland. So, I'm curious how he ended up with it. Maybe descended from an early migration to Britain and made its way up to Scotland? Or possibly Normans (the Fraser clan, as well as some others, are said to have been founded by Normans)? Would appreciate any insights anyone might have; though my understanding is that DF27 is currently under-tested and under-studied, and our grasp of its origin and expansion is quite limited.

    In true DF27 fashion, the results of my sketch are a bit all over the place. Looking at my sketch, the only things I -with my very limited understanding- am gleaning is that:

    1) DF27's wide spread extends to, and is reinforced by, this branch; and
    2) BY50050 may indicate the creation of a branch native and exclusive to the British Isles (downstream Irish could be Ulster Scots?)

    One of the more perplexing things to me is the positive tester from Spain in BY49178 above my grandfather's terminal BY50050. I suppose we don't know how much time passed in between. I also know the small sample size involved doesn't help, nor the French ban on genealogical and recreational DNA testing.

    For what it's worth, my grandfather's current V3 autosomal results from FTDNA are -
    England, Wales, and Scotland: 65%
    Central Europe: 21%
    Ireland: 14%

    Thank you,
    tehorner
    Je suis prest

    P.S. This is my first post, so please go easy on me!

    DF27 R-PF6551 Diagram.png
    Hi tehorner, I looked at YFull and Ytree and the date estimates at YFull are very vague, however Ytree has BY21057 as formed around 1470BCE, and BY21058, which is just under BY21057 is dated to 1489BCE. Sometimes at Ytree the child snp is dated to be older than the parent snp which is probably due to the two be very close in age. Even though there is no age estimation for PF6550, I would assume it should be fairly close to BY21057. The other thing you can do is do your own calculation using your block tree at FTDNA. For example my block tree starts with FGC23196 at the 42 snp marker. I know that FGC23196 has an age estimate of around 1500BCE per YFull and Ytree. So 3500 years, which is 1500BCE to present, divided by 42 is 83 years per snp. This seems to be about normal years per snp for most P312 descendants.

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  7. #4
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    Chile Spanish Empire (1506-1701) Italy 1861-1946
    I6470 • R-FT10154 • Cogotas I • Virgazal, Tablada de Rudrón, Burgos, Castilla y León (1746-1540 calBCE) ( in https://indo-european.eu/2021/04/y-d...o1QZ0DJ1UBmbh0 )

    This is new? (I dont see FT9510 in your sketch, and in the snp tracker FT10154 appears below)

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